Inability to enjoy new cars..

[Dudermagee]

lol broke ass kids
you'll understand when you're older

[SheaMoose]

You tried to differentiate "character" and "personality", and tried to justify your point. I am telling you that your definition of "personality" as you stated it, makes your car a piece of shit. Character, sure I'll give you that some old cars have a great deal of "character", but I've seen new cars with just as much "character". The only difference is you see many more of the new cars on the road right now because they are, you know... new, and what's being bought right now.

I love old cars as much as the next guy, but your inability to enjoy new cars sounds like a personal problem.

And I agree with you on the personality thing, except a brand new car also shows it brand new personality. It goes both ways.
My inability is my opinion.

New M sport BMWs. They have a presence about them. New Fords, the fusion in particular, tons of it. The same can be said of the 458, and Aventador.

Just because a car is new doesn't mean it has character. So many people say "oh that car has character" and the only thing they can come up with is because it's old and "different" to what we see on the road now. So if those cars were new now, would that mean that they didn't have character? All of these cars are mass produced and at one time or another dominated the road, when they were new did those cars not have that "character" that they do now?

I think people are confusing the word "character" with "presence".

Any expensive new car is flashy and gets attention, that doesn't mean it has character- that would be presence. Character is something that happens with time, age, and wear.

So then by your definition no new car can have character. So then when these old cars that everyone says has so much "character" when they were new, they had none?

So what does that mean for old cars with fresh paint, and all new parts on them? And fully restored cars? They have no character as well?

I agree with MommysLittleMonster, character is something that must be developed over time. A car must build it's own character by paying its dues and staying out of the junkyard.

A restored car still has the character it's earned.
Just because somebody gets plastic surgery or something doesn't mean they are a different person.

[SheaMoose]

lol broke ass kids
you'll understand when you're older

Dude, I'll abide.

[96CD7]

ok so you make a thread stating your op when you know others are gonna have a different op on cars . plus theres plenty of NEW cars that look great, go fast, and are just nice to have. people like what they like, dont say you dont like any of the new cars when you know youll end of seeing something you like and well never hear you say " man thats nice " a car is a car, its not made to please everyone, but companies try

[smoky0937]

If I could afford (not finance) new cars, I would only drive new. Until then, used cars I can pay for in cash . I also have a strong feeling that most people saying they wouldn't buy new, haven't sat in a car with single digits on the odometer.

[Rebounder]

a brand new car off the lot can have just as much character after year as an the most unique cars can have in 30 or 40 years. it's all about the relationship or maybe friendship you build with it.

[metalmonkey47]

ABS is smart you really dont engage it unless it is needed, carburetors suck poor mpg, pain in the ass to tune properly, suck for winter starts, I could go on.

Heated seats were invented in the 50s and many high end luxury cars had them optional starting in the 70s.

Even if you take the electronic controlled stuff. Newer suspensions are worlds better, engines are designed better with more power for the efficiency and size.

Yes the feel may not be the same as it is a more refined vehicle, the computer systems may be more complicated not being as forgiving on mods, the interior may be more plush but cars are not designed for people like you in mind they are looking for the average consumer. Its just to what you are used to.

All of that is subjective. My 1970's Truck gets 29mpg. It starts great every winter day because I took 10 minuets to adjust the choke, and it takes nothing to tune it.

I can agree that newer suspensions are better (in most cases, but not all) the only difference is that back in the day cars weren't engineered to do nearly as much as we use them for now, so all these complications on these 'newer' cars are just evolutions of sorts.

Back in day, cars were equipped (not all, but some) with 4 wheel drum brakes, manual steering, etc. They were driven across country roads to church every Sunday morning and the market every other day. Cars didn't need to mash the brakes fast and slam you into the dash to stop, or turn at quick speeds, etc. They just got you around.

Now we live in a world where people are spoiled. Ever wondered why there are so many terrible drivers? Here's the answer:

You put someone in a brand new car, with full driver assists. ABS, TCS, Stability Management, Power Steering, 4 Wheel Power Disk Brakes, etc. Now you've created an environment where just about any idiot can drive it without properly learning how to handle a car in adverse situations. You have people that don't know anything about physics, cars, etc that can jump in and go and if they make a mistake the car fixes it for them. Instead of teaching drivers to be better, we teach our cars how to compensate for driver errors. To some extent that's fine, but if you don't focus on making the drivers better, then nothing changes. You end up with retard drivers.

Go stand in an Autozone for an hour and listen to the customers. May not be a great example of a place, but it's where I work and it's not bad. You have people come in stores to get their oil checked. They have no clue how and no one's ever taught them. Of course you would offer to teach them, but they don't care to learn because it's no longer important. Most new cars will tell you when the oils low. Takes all the responsibility out of owning a car.

Cars are getting simpler, yet more complicated at the same time. Your gauges used to give you a number. Oil PSI, temp, not just a line on the gauge. Get into a new Nissan Versa and look for the temperature gauge. You won't find one because it's no longer deemed necessary equipment. Wait for the check engine light to come on before maintaining the car.



Used to be if your car didn't run, you would go outside and check the points, condenser, etc. It was nothing. You could keep spark plugs, points, condenser, and a matchbox in the glove box and do your tuneup in the grocery store parking lot..


Cars just aren't that nice anymore. People want to be babied. They don't want to know anything about how to fix their car, maintain it, nothing. When I find the rare few, I teach, because it's a dying art. I like Stanceworks because of its old school content. I'd like to see more people go this way. Like I said, it's a dying art.



FYI, a 1981 Toyota Celica isn't much old school.



All that said, I enjoy some new cars. But it's rare that I'll look at one and see myself behind the wheel. Just my opinion though. I'm the same guy that would much rather live in the 60's then now.

[metalmonkey47]

So then by your definition no new car can have character. So then when these old cars that everyone says has so much "character" when they were new, they had none?

So what does that mean for old cars with fresh paint, and all new parts on them? And fully restored cars? They have no character as well?

New cars don't have character. Character is built from a long life of hard work. A new car will have character when it's no longer new.

And old car that's been restored has plenty of character, given the person who restored it did it for themselves and their own enjoyment.

I could go on for hours.

[Kielan]

a brand new car off the lot can have just as much character after year as an the most unique cars can hae in 30 or 40 years. it's all about the relationship or mayber friendship you build with it.

This is exactly what I am saying.

[M M]

All of that is subjective. My 1970's Truck gets 29mpg. It starts great every winter day because I took 10 minuets to adjust the choke, and it takes nothing to tune it.

I can agree that newer suspensions are better (in most cases, but not all) the only difference is that back in the day cars weren't engineered to do nearly as much as we use them for now, so all these complications on these 'newer' cars are just evolutions of sorts.

Back in day, cars were equipped (not all, but some) with 4 wheel drum brakes, manual steering, etc. They were driven across country roads to church every Sunday morning and the market every other day. Cars didn't need to mash the brakes fast and slam you into the dash to stop, or turn at quick speeds, etc. They just got you around.

Now we live in a world where people are spoiled. Ever wondered why there are so many terrible drivers? Here's the answer:

You put someone in a brand new car, with full driver assists. ABS, TCS, Stability Management, Power Steering, 4 Wheel Power Disk Brakes, etc. Now you've created an environment where just about any idiot can drive it without properly learning how to handle a car in adverse situations. You have people that don't know anything about physics, cars, etc that can jump in and go and if they make a mistake the car fixes it for them. Instead of teaching drivers to be better, we teach our cars how to compensate for driver errors. To some extent that's fine, but if you don't focus on making the drivers better, then nothing changes. You end up with retard drivers.

....

This was a very well written post, you said it exactly.

I'm on the side of older cars, I see myself as someone who will always be driving older cars no matter how much money I have. Though that might change, who knows. What I have found, being in and driving a range of cars brand new and old is that when you get into or look at an older car, and then another old car, you can see clear differences between the brands and even models. BMW's feel different to VW's which are different to old Fords etc. With new cars, I feel that it could just as well be a BMW, VW or Ford, I can't really tell aside from the badge. Maybe I haven't spent enough time in the newer cars to learn the differences but that's how I see it.

Don't get me woing though, there are a number of new cars which I think are great, but I don't think I'd choose them over an equivalent of an older generation.

[SheaMoose]

All of that is subjective. My 1970's Truck gets 29mpg. It starts great every winter day because I took 10 minuets to adjust the choke, and it takes nothing to tune it.

I can agree that newer suspensions are better (in most cases, but not all) the only difference is that back in the day cars weren't engineered to do nearly as much as we use them for now, so all these complications on these 'newer' cars are just evolutions of sorts.

Back in day, cars were equipped (not all, but some) with 4 wheel drum brakes, manual steering, etc. They were driven across country roads to church every Sunday morning and the market every other day. Cars didn't need to mash the brakes fast and slam you into the dash to stop, or turn at quick speeds, etc. They just got you around.

Now we live in a world where people are spoiled. Ever wondered why there are so many terrible drivers? Here's the answer:

You put someone in a brand new car, with full driver assists. ABS, TCS, Stability Management, Power Steering, 4 Wheel Power Disk Brakes, etc. Now you've created an environment where just about any idiot can drive it without properly learning how to handle a car in adverse situations. You have people that don't know anything about physics, cars, etc that can jump in and go and if they make a mistake the car fixes it for them. Instead of teaching drivers to be better, we teach our cars how to compensate for driver errors. To some extent that's fine, but if you don't focus on making the drivers better, then nothing changes. You end up with retard drivers.

Go stand in an Autozone for an hour and listen to the customers. May not be a great example of a place, but it's where I work and it's not bad. You have people come in stores to get their oil checked. They have no clue how and no one's ever taught them. Of course you would offer to teach them, but they don't care to learn because it's no longer important. Most new cars will tell you when the oils low. Takes all the responsibility out of owning a car.

Cars are getting simpler, yet more complicated at the same time. Your gauges used to give you a number. Oil PSI, temp, not just a line on the gauge. Get into a new Nissan Versa and look for the temperature gauge. You won't find one because it's no longer deemed necessary equipment. Wait for the check engine light to come on before maintaining the car.



Used to be if your car didn't run, you would go outside and check the points, condenser, etc. It was nothing. You could keep spark plugs, points, condenser, and a matchbox in the glove box and do your tuneup in the grocery store parking lot..


Cars just aren't that nice anymore. People want to be babied. They don't want to know anything about how to fix their car, maintain it, nothing. When I find the rare few, I teach, because it's a dying art. I like Stanceworks because of its old school content. I'd like to see more people go this way. Like I said, it's a dying art.



FYI, a 1981 Toyota Celica isn't much old school.



All that said, I enjoy some new cars. But it's rare that I'll look at one and see myself behind the wheel. Just my opinion though. I'm the same guy that would much rather live in the 60's then now.

Exactly!
Thank you for posting this.

This was a very well written post, you said it exactly.

I'm on the side of older cars, I see myself as someone who will always be driving older cars no matter how much money I have. Though that might change, who knows. What I have found, being in and driving a range of cars brand new and old is that when you get into or look at an older car, and then another old car, you can see clear differences between the brands and even models. BMW's feel different to VW's which are different to old Fords etc. With new cars, I feel that it could just as well be a BMW, VW or Ford, I can't really tell aside from the badge. Maybe I haven't spent enough time in the newer cars to learn the differences but that's how I see it.

Don't get me woing though, there are a number of new cars which I think are great, but I don't think I'd choose them over an equivalent of an older generation.

That's why they have no character, they all just blend together.
They may look different, but they all feel the same.

[Kielan]

If you're saying that a new BMW feels the same as a new Audi on the road or any other manufacturer to manufacturer, it's safe to say you have no idea what you are talking about.

[M M]

If you're saying that a new BMW feels the same as a new Audi on the road or any other manufacturer to manufacturer, it's safe to say you have no idea what you are talking about.

It's not so much that they feel the same, but the fact that the differences are not very big (to me anyway). Sitting in different cars of the same model with older cars, each one feels different, whereas with the new ones I have been in, they're all the same (a bit obvious but you get my point). This is what I think the character thing is that is being referred to. Obviously different cars will feel different on the road, I never said they wouldn't whether new or old but it's just not the same. I guess you could say everything is toned down. Maybe it's just when you get used to driving older cars you can't pick up on the "small" differences of the newer cars that easy.

[SheaMoose]

If you're saying that a new BMW feels the same as a new Audi on the road or any other manufacturer to manufacturer, it's safe to say you have no idea what you are talking about.

I never said on the road.
Just the general feel.
And it's my opinion.
Not a proven fact.

I have a love for all cars in one way or another, it's just that old cars really do it for me, and well, new cars don't do it so much.

Andd...

http://www.stanceworks.com/2013/06/the-true-driving-experience-only-comes-from-driving-a-classic/

jussayin'

[Kielan]

It's not so much that they feel the same, but the fact that the differences are not very big (to me anyway). Sitting in different cars of the same model with older cars, each one feels different, whereas with the new ones I have been in, they're all the same (a bit obvious but you get my point). This is what I think the character thing is that is being referred to. Obviously different cars will feel different on the road, I never said they wouldn't whether new or old but it's just not the same. I guess you could say everything is toned down. Maybe it's just when you get used to driving older cars you can't pick up on the "small" differences of the newer cars that easy.

I sit in old cars from one to another and get the same feeling.. Cars are made in periods and generally follow general specific styles.

Cars take on the character of their owner, they themselves inherently have no character. It's their owner that makes the car what it is, not the car itself.

I never said on the road.
Just the general feel.
And it's my opinion.
Not a proven fact.

I have a love for all cars in one way or another, it's just that old cars really do it for me, and well, new cars don't do it so much.

Andd...

http://www.stanceworks.com/2013/06/the-true-driving-experience-only-comes-from-driving-a-classic/

jussayin'

Cool a biased article is your way of backing up your point.