The 9/11 conspiracy discussion thread - Bring your mind, not your mouth-

[Anonymoose]

yeah exactly what kielan said, the gov't in no way made money off 9/11, and people like you going around saying shit like "oh the gov't kills americans for money" thats not true at all. Some of us are proud and have faith in our country, we can see you obviously aren't one of them.

Although it did give the government free reign to go into the middle east "looking for terrosists". War is a money making machine. 9/11 did directly make any money but the after affects certainly did/are.

I'm an design engineer and I know for a fact that a building wouldn't fall perfectly like BOTH the towers did. They design for just about any given situation. I did hear that it was because of the heat that the main support beams were heated and warped, hence the collapse but I still don't see that both towers could fall perfectly in on themselves in exactly the same way. This only happens in my knowledge under a controlled environment.

I don't know what happened and I don't really care either way, but it always seems there is something dodgy with the way the american government do things.

[J.Wolfe]

Anyone who still believes the "official" story of 9/11 is either
#1 One of the myriad of dis-info agents chasing stories like this to refute them and try and make reason
#2 A blind "Patriot" who automatically yields to the U.S. Gov't position for any number of reasons.
#3 Lost by the idea that our Gov't(or an element of it) could possibly be party to such an horrific as is beyond comprehension.
#4 So intellectually dense that it just eludes them.

I'm sorry but I don't know how you guys can look at these videos and still believe it was an act of pure terrorism against our country... honestly, wake the fuck up...

if you've watched the videos, evidence is smacking you square in the face. Not just 'myths' or 'ideologies' but the most in depth, concrete, pin point FACTS that consist of hours upon hours upon hours of research, digging, and finding of records/phone calls/videos/anything... you name it and they have it. So again, maybe because of the fact it's so blatant, and they did the absolute worst job of covering it up, is it that your scared to really just admit and accept the fact our gov't pretty much scammed us into thinking one thing, and bamboozled us right before our eyes... just follow the complete inconsistency of stories from gov't officials, 'reasons' for explosions, and the perfect collapse of buildings that had no reason to collapse in the first place, so many missing files and footage that they purposely hid, fake phone calls, NO evidence of a place hitting the Pentagon, NO evidence of flight 93 after it crashed, i can go on because its all there... its just a matter of you watching for yourself

that is all.
Justin

[ThatEF9kid]

To orchestrate something of this size, 100s (more likely 1000s) would have needed to be involved and many at low levels. There's no way in hell that someone wouldn't have leaked especially by now. You know damn well some motherfucker who knew about it, and had solid evidence(which there would be), would've spill the beans either out of morality, or just to get some fame.

Human error. That's all I'm saying.

Im with you on this, exactly what i was thinking.

[Deltron]

I dont believe the 9/11 conspiracy but I always question flight 77 which supposedly hit the pentagon.

Where did the parts of the plane go???

[J.Wolfe]

Im with you on this, exactly what i was thinking.

well you guys don't watch or read because it has leaked... that's why were talking about it???

how are you telling me it hasn't when clearly so many loop holes in the gov't stories are not hidden, they have changed most of their stories about what happened that day and the following days to try and rationalize the actions and make it 'seem' more legitimate... human error you say? well yea the gov't sure did their job because yes 1000's of people did know about this and orchestrated it... its called our gov't...

[Bruno730]

I have not read the 3 pages of posts but being a mechanical engineer and having been involved in forensic investigations, as well as prepared a heat transfer analysis on the world trade center, I can say the following information regarding the matter:

1) The building's (Tower 1 and 2) were designed like an egg-crate, i.e. outer columns and an inner shell, making it inherently weak, although at the time of construction it was considered ultra-modern. It was not uncommon for the building to laterally displace by a few inches.

2) Portions of the steel in the building had higher rated fire proofing than others, regardless, if this fire proofing were dislodged or came loose due to the jet impact it'd be fair to look at how bare steel can endure the elevated temperatures. My analysis shows the bare steel would take approximately 1 hour to reach distortion temperature, within the range that the building collapsed.

3) However, the issue isn't with the deformation of sthe teel beams or coulmns but rather differential expansion between the concrete floor slabs, steel beams, and the clip angle conections at beam junctures. Photographs show the bolt holes were distorted due to the elevated temperatures and built up stresses. Also keep in mind that a Jet did impact the building, further reducing the load bearing capabilities of the structure.

4) Reports that this was a planned demolition have no basis. If it were a planned demolition, the building would NOT have collapsed from the upper floors to lower floors. Plus, there was no evidence of thermite-like ignition, which is consistent with demolitions. In addition, there was no evidence on the debris consistent with demolition-like conditions.

5) Flight 93 was indeed shot down by the government. That is not in dispute here

Also while the internet is great, i have trouble trusting many of the videos/reports unless it is a trusted source, due to the ease of manipulation.

Robby

[hek1620]

thanks for chiming in moose. ur point of view and schooling helps. eventhough some of us didn't need to be told by an engineer that the shit is impossible. thats not at all a shot u.

[hek1620]

Anyone who still believes the "official" story of 9/11 is either
#1 One of the myriad of dis-info agents chasing stories like this to refute them and try and make reason
#2 A blind "Patriot" who automatically yields to the U.S. Gov't position for any number of reasons.
#3 Lost by the idea that our Gov't(or an element of it) could possibly be party to such an horrific as is beyond comprehension.
#4 So intellectually dense that it just eludes them.

I'm sorry but I don't know how you guys can look at these videos and still believe it was an act of pure terrorism against our country... honestly, wake the fuck up...

if you've watched the videos, evidence is smacking you square in the face. Not just 'myths' or 'ideologies' but the most in depth, concrete, pin point FACTS that consist of hours upon hours upon hours of research, digging, and finding of records/phone calls/videos/anything... you name it and they have it. So again, maybe because of the fact it's so blatant, and they did the absolute worst job of covering it up, is it that your scared to really just admit and accept the fact our gov't pretty much scammed us into thinking one thing, and bamboozled us right before our eyes... just follow the complete inconsistency of stories from gov't officials, 'reasons' for explosions, and the perfect collapse of buildings that had no reason to collapse in the first place, so many missing files and footage that they purposely hid, fake phone calls, NO evidence of a place hitting the Pentagon, NO evidence of flight 93 after it crashed, i can go on because its all there... its just a matter of you watching for yourself

that is all.
Justin

damn, i was starting to think expressing myself on this thread was a waste of time. thanks bud. were the hell were u and moose when i was getting attacked lastnight??

[Bruno730]

just thought i'd give a more technical approach as opposed to heresay but point taken. as stated in the thread title i brought my mind, not my mouth.

[hek1620]

this morning i woke up with a smile on my face. because the first thing i thought was, how funny it is when u try to talk about this type of problem, the brainwashed always come out to point out shit that doesnt have anything to do with it. like grammar or what have you. doing exactly what the government wants u to do. changing the subject, and turning people that see through the bullshit into the monsters. the non-patriotic. if anything, u people are the traitors. turning to look the other way knowing that the government is fucking this country big time.

[J.Wolfe]

I have not read the 3 pages of posts but being a mechanical engineer and having been involved in forensic investigations, as well as prepared a heat transfer analysis on the world trade center, I can say the following information regarding the matter:

1) The building's (Tower 1 and 2) were designed like an egg-crate, i.e. outer columns and an inner shell, making it inherently weak, although at the time of construction it was considered ultra-modern. It was not uncommon for the building to laterally displace by a few inches.

2) Portions of the steel in the building had higher rated fire proofing than others, regardless, if this fire proofing were dislodged or came loose due to the jet impact it'd be fair to look at how bare steel can endure the elevated temperatures. My analysis shows the bare steel would take approximately 1 hour to reach distortion temperature, within the range that the building collapsed.

3) However, the issue isn't with the deformation of sthe teel beams or coulmns but rather differential expansion between the concrete floor slabs, steel beams, and the clip angle conections at beam junctures. Photographs show the bolt holes were distorted due to the elevated temperatures and built up stresses. Also keep in mind that a Jet did impact the building, further reducing the load bearing capabilities of the structure.

4) Reports that this was a planned demolition have no basis. If it were a planned demolition, the building would NOT have collapsed from the upper floors to lower floors. Plus, there was no evidence of thermite-like ignition, which is consistent with demolitions. In addition, there was no evidence on the debris consistent with demolition-like conditions.

5) Flight 93 was indeed shot down by the government. That is not in dispute here

Also while the internet is great, i have trouble trusting many of the videos/reports unless it is a trusted source, due to the ease of manipulation.

Robby

well im a arch major and have some opinions on what you've said

a lot of that has been disproved already... there WAS in fact multiple traces of materials found in dust samples that showed the makeups of a demolition being used. and un accountable metals at ground zero fused to the structure to be found as detonating material

the building was not that of a bad structure. skyscrapers had been in existence since the turn of the century of it being built, and this building was built to the same specs if not BETTER to have withstood high winds, damage, and even 'multiple planes' hitting the structure. pre 9/11 there have been a number of accounts of buildings catching fire w/ pretty much ALL having withstood worse damage, and burning severely longer and did not show any signs of collapsing and were saved no problem. spanning much more floors then the 4 or 5 in 9/11. also how in a matter of an hour would an entire building just collapse when a building has the give to absorb an impact of that magnitude and keep its structural form just fine. if it was based off of the metal warping and melting this would have been the longest process possible.

the smoke and fire no way shape or form resembled that or a true fire being produced solely from gases and whatever else they said 'exploded' or 'heated up' inside. if you look at pictures and videos of the point of impact where 'a high magnitude' of heat was being displaced, individuals are standing at point of impact and showed zero signs of heat effecting them in any way. also the people inside the building passed from above the hit to below it and survived. how could so many individuals be able to pass through that point of heat if it was at the level they claim it was. below the crash lights and air condition were still flowing upward working properly just floors below.

also pretty much everyone there that day said for a fact other explosions happened within those buildings and there was zero doubt that it would not have collapsed w/o the help of explosives.

and lastly tell me how not the two towers, but the one other building that fell right beside them, when it has no serious damage whatsoever besides debris deflecting off of it. all 3 building fell in natural free fall and that structure would have had to been made out of paper to have zero change in its speed/pattern/and orientation of the 3 collapses...

some quotes:

Brigham Young University physicist Steven E. Jones, architect Richard Gage, software engineer Jim Hoffman, and theologian David Ray Griffin, argue that the aircraft impacts and resulting fires could not have weakened the buildings sufficiently to initiate a catastrophic collapse, and that the buildings would not have collapsed completely, nor at the speeds that they did, without additional energy involved to weaken their structures.

Knowledge that the burning temperatures of jet fuel would not melt the steel support structure of the WTC contributed to the belief among skeptics that the towers would not have collapsed without external interference (something other than the planes). NIST does not claim that the steel was melted, but rather that the weakened steel (at 1000 degrees Celsius steel weakens to roughly 10% of its room temperature strength), together with the damage caused by the planes' impacts, caused the collapses.[93] NIST reported that a simulation model based on the assumption that combustible vapors burned immediately upon mixing with the incoming oxygen showed that "at any given location, the duration of [gas] temperatures near 1,000 °C was about 15 to 20 [minutes]. The rest of the time, the calculated temperatures were 500 °C or below."

[Bruno730]

to my knowledge, the way to demo a building is to pre-cut the columns with a cutting torch, then install your dynamite which is coated, the coating then cuts through the already weakened structure, and it takes extreme precision. How would this operation even of occurred? I don't know how many men you'd need but probably a lot. In addition, while i'm sure other explosions did occur from other equipment there is no evidence suggesting demolition-like failure. look at a video of planned demo vs. the trade center. trade center falls top to bottom. not bottom to top. this is due to the failure of the upper floor slabs and a domino-effect to the subsequent slabs that could not support the additional weight.

While you say multiple planes, i have a feeling that would be something like a Cessna, not multiple 757 or the like. Clarify?

also, they found rotted wooden ship remains in the soil below the tower correct? i'm not sure of a % but i'm going to say the majority of manhattan was backfilled over old marshlands (check historic maps) so I dont see it improbable that the repurcussion or shockwave produced by the collapsed buildings could have disturbed a surrounding building through the poor soil conditons.

You bring up good points. I'm not ruling out a conspiracy, i just look at the evidence and cannot find a substantial mechanism to support conspiracy, which leads me to believe it was a structural failure from the impact. Now if you want to say that the jet impact was caused by the government well, now we have a whole other issue

[J.Wolfe]

this morning i woke up with a smile on my face. because the first thing i thought was, how funny it is when u try to talk about this type of problem, the brainwashed always come out to point out shit that doesnt have anything to do with it. like grammar or what have you. doing exactly what the government wants u to do. changing the subject, and turning people that see through the bullshit into the monsters. the non-patriotic. if anything, u people are the traitors. turning to look the other way knowing that the government is fucking this country big time.

honestly, me and my college roommate have the most common sense in the world and yesterday we were in fact made firm believers of this. I watched the videos and told him about it and even HE was like na i have my doubts and what not. after watching the video we was vastly shocked at the amount of info and the legitimacy of just about every claim,

my BIGGEST argument is that the Government has ALWAYS been one working behind our backs, and to be naive and think they would NEVER hurt our own civilians is beyond believable. one word my friends;

Cointellpro

what makes you think its the most impossible thing to knowingly kill our own... we have been doing it for centuries. And Cointellpro was that our political leaders and individuals that were a major role in society, 9/11 was merely a few thousand every day citizens. Cointellpro was done because the govt was being exploited by these people for having imperfections and unethical ways of doing things. They did it to save their asses.

9/11 same thing, it was done with motives involved for bettering the sake of our government. money is the up most greed in this world, and that we surely reaped in the end...

[Jimmy_HR32]

Kielan, not having a rant at you but have you watched any of the videos that provide some of the 'evidence' to support that the demolition was somehow staged?

I respect everyone's views but I think if you haven't already, take a look at some of the videos. They bring up good points whether you like it or not. :/

[J.Wolfe]

to my knowledge, the way to demo a building is to pre-cut the columns with a cutting torch, then install your dynamite which is coated, the coating then cuts through the already weakened structure, and it takes extreme precision. How would this operation even of occurred? I don't know how many men you'd need but probably a lot. In addition, while i'm sure other explosions did occur from other equipment there is no evidence suggesting demolition-like failure. look at a video of planned demo vs. the trade center. trade center falls top to bottom. not bottom to top. this is due to the failure of the upper floor slabs and a domino-effect to the subsequent slabs that could not support the additional weight.

While you say multiple planes, i have a feeling that would be something like a Cessna, not multiple 757 or the like. Clarify?

also, they found rotted wooden ship remains in the soil below the tower correct? i'm not sure of a % but i'm going to say the majority of manhattan was backfilled over old marshlands (check historic maps) so I dont see it improbable that the repurcussion or shockwave produced by the collapsed buildings could have disturbed a surrounding building through the poor soil conditons.

You bring up good points. I'm not ruling out a conspiracy, i just look at the evidence and cannot find a substantial mechanism to support conspiracy, which leads me to believe it was a structural failure from the impact. Now if you want to say that the jet impact was caused by the government well, now we have a whole other issue

the explosion idea the government really did a bad job w/ at keeping a straight story. they for god sake said gases in the kitchens caused the explosion, when infact a A class building would never have such a thing, and all electric equipment was used in these kitchens. also video footage shows cameras 100% steadily positioned, not a shockwave after the buildings starting crumbling, but infact BEFORE it even started to collpase. showing that in fact bombs were detonated before hand to help ease the structure down.

as for how the bombs got in. leading up to the incident there were MANY un familiar, random evacuations of these buildings that none working had been aware of as to why. Its not a fact that at this point bombs could have been shuffled in, but these were out of the blue actions that could very well explain how and when they got in.

i say multiple planes because when tested and built. they had the intentions of being able to fully withstand the hit of multiple planes. not even just one.