2008 Slammed Jeep Patriot

[Creation]

I've had previous discussions with Taylor from Bagriders a few months back and he gave me a pretty good idea about getting serious so i'll sort of throw those down here for discussion.

Threaded Coilover Brackets for my BC's to run Bag over Coilover.
Front Bags: 2x Aero Sport Bags
Rear Bags: 2x Air House 2 Aero Sport
Line: 3/8 Line
Tank: ?
Management: ?

Taylor recommended Switchspeed, which i've heard good things about but I'm also considering just saving up and doing the installing elevel just to be worry free once it's taken care of and installed(which i've heard is a nightmare getting the sensors adjusted).

I don't mind manually setting my pressures, but I feel like with passengers getting in and out, using my cargo area full of items such as canopy tents etc for shows, eLevel may be good. But, Switchspeed I could manually adjust to accommodate aswell.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

E-Level is absolutely worth it, and it's not difficult at all to install the sensors if you're willing to take some measurements and do a little trig. Especially so with the new sensors with their adjustable arms and the fact that they just error out rather than breaking on over-rotation.

I cannot imagine not having it on my car.




P.S. I don't mind you working off the signature template I sent you, but maybe not xerox it. I did hand-draw those icons, after all.

[mikey G]

Wow, I didn't even want a cool signature block....thanks for sharing sam. (dick)



But yeah creat, shed the $ for the simplicity and ease of use of the v2. Also fuck bitches get money.

[Creation]

E-Level is absolutely worth it, and it's not difficult at all to install the sensors if you're willing to take some measurements and do a little trig. Especially so with the new sensors with their adjustable arms and the fact that they just error out rather than breaking on over-rotation.

I cannot imagine not having it on my car.

P.S. I don't mind you working off the signature template I sent you, but maybe not xerox it. I did hand-draw those icons, after all.

I'll work on getting the Icons changed and making it more personalized.

I read your entire long replied posts about the elevel, it seems so much more worth it but all these errors people are having are just overwhelming me.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

No worries, dude, I just know both you and I are big on the originality front, otherwise I wouldn't drive a German car that can't get up to Autobahn speeds and you wouldn't drive a lowered 2WD Jeep . Whatever, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Anyway. E-Level.

I'm curious what errors you're seeing from other people? The only problems I've ever had are from when I installed my front sensors poorly (wheels ran into them on full lock) and when my pressure sensor broke (poor installation allowed water to pool in it and freeze). I've had it installed now for a little over a year, and it simply does exactly what I expect every. single. time. It also handles errors in surprisingly sane ways, and even when throwing error after error (which have only happened in the above scenarios for me), it still allows manual control so you're not stranded.

One last thing to think about. SwitchSpeed can be upgraded to e-Level if you send in your control unit and buy the sensors and wiring harness. That might be a good way to go if you're hesitant at throwing down the not-insignificant amount of money that e-Level costs, or you're not feeling confident about adding the complication of height sensors on top of your air ride install.

[Creation]

Mainly the struggle of dealing with the sensors, and properly getting them setup. I've never dealt with any air ride install, and me and a friend will be doing the entire install so I just don't want to get lost in the install. This is my only mean of transportation and we plan on tearing it down one night after work, and just spending the night and the following day probably a Saturday doing everything needed. And trying to get back on the road by Sunday.

When the time comes of course.

No worries, dude, I just know both you and I are big on the originality front, otherwise I wouldn't drive a German car that can't get up to Autobahn speeds and you wouldn't drive a lowered 2WD Jeep . Whatever, I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Anyway. E-Level.

I'm curious what errors you're seeing from other people? The only problems I've ever had are from when I installed my front sensors poorly (wheels ran into them on full lock) and when my pressure sensor broke (poor installation allowed water to pool in it and freeze). I've had it installed now for a little over a year, and it simply does exactly what I expect every. single. time. It also handles errors in surprisingly sane ways, and even when throwing error after error (which have only happened in the above scenarios for me), it still allows manual control so you're not stranded.

One last thing to think about. SwitchSpeed can be upgraded to e-Level if you send in your control unit and buy the sensors and wiring harness. That might be a good way to go if you're hesitant at throwing down the not-insignificant amount of money that e-Level costs, or you're not feeling confident about adding the complication of height sensors on top of your air ride install.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

Well, a couple of thoughts about that. For one, you don't have to do the whole install in one sitting. I did all my trunk install about a month before I started pulling the suspension apart. If you're going for a clean trunk install, that's going to take a few days' build time itself, at least if you're doing any woodworking.

I built my car in an alleyway in the rain, a couple hours at a time. The only way I got it done was piecemeal. I installed the sensors first, making sure they had acceptable travel throughout the range of the suspension. This is trivial to do if you can math. I didn't have the time to install all the bags in one sitting, so I ran on just rear bags for a good couple of weeks. Uncalibrated e-Level will handle this in a reasonably sane manner - I just plugged the front two ports on the VU4, and pressed up on the control switch. It's a surprisingly fail-resistant system.

None of this is to invalidate your concerns. There's nothing simple or easy about air ride, even for those bastards lucky enough to have off-the-shelf kits. If you are truly worried about it, Switchspeed is about as easy to install as V2 (the grand champion of easy-to-install management), and is easy enough to upgrade down the line.

That said, I had never installed air ride on anything, and I figured it out. If a slow old man like me can install e-Level in an alleyway in the rain, you can install it too.

[Creation]

I know it's not to deter me, I appreciate all the information. I should start mapping out how I feel like my trunk should be. I'm going to put it all under the false floor that's already there, and just lift it to show it off at shows since my trunk area is still highly active in terms of use.

I'm considering doing like you stated, and just get everything mapped out and figured out that way I have a serious game plan. Is there a program that I can use to map out fittings and leaderlines etc so I can start a part list?

Once all mapped out I could get the trunk started and move to the install once ready.

Well, a couple of thoughts about that. For one, you don't have to do the whole install in one sitting. I did all my trunk install about a month before I started pulling suspension apart. If you're going for a clean trunk install, that's going to take a few days' build time itself, at least if you're doing any woodworking.

I built my car in an alleyway in the rain, a couple hours at a time. The only way I got it done was piecemeal. I installed the sensors first, making sure they had acceptable travel throughout the range of the suspension. This is trivial to do if you can math. I didn't have the time to install all the bags in one sitting, so I ran on just rear bags for a good couple of weeks. Uncalibrated e-Level will handle this in a reasonably sane manner - I just plugged the front two ports on the VU4, and pressed up on the control switch. It's a surprisingly fail-resistant system.

None of this is to invalidate your concerns. There's nothing simple or easy about air ride, even for those bastards lucky enough to have off-the-shelf kits. If you are truly worried about it, Switchspeed is about as easy to install as V2 (the grand champion of easy-to-install management), and is easy enough to upgrade down the line.

That said, I had never installed air ride on anything, and I figured it out. If a slow old man like me can install e-Level in an alleyway in the rain, you can install it too.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

I'm considering doing like you stated, and just get everything mapped out and figured out that way I have a serious game plan. Is there a program that I can use to map out fittings and leaderlines etc so I can start a part list?

I used Omnigraffle to make this monster:


(click for HUGE)

I'd assume Visio or any decent flowchart software could do the same. Frankly, a pencil and paper is all you really need.

Also, don't let that image make you afeared. My system is very complex because I'm an irritating perfectionist. There is a lot of complication in there (flow controls, redundant feeds, auxiliary lines) that you won't have to deal with if you don't want to.

[Creation]

That's what I was looking for! Something to make a detailed sketch and make it easy to read. I'm curious about tank size. I've heard people say you should run atleast 5 gallons to prevent constant filling, but I see that you've only got a 2.5 tank.

Do I need to run a bigger tank? Also, what's the downside to running two smaller 2.5 gallon tanks compared to one 5?

Would one 444c compressor be good? Or is dual highly recommended?

I used Omnigraffle to make this monster:


(click for HUGE)

I'd assume Visio or any decent flowchart software could do the same. Frankly, a pencil and paper is all you really need.

Also, don't let that image make you afeared. My system is very complex because I'm an irritating perfectionist. There is a lot of complication in there (flow controls, redundant feeds, auxiliary lines) that you won't have to deal with if you don't want to.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

That's what I was looking for! Something to make a detailed sketch and make it easy to read. I'm curious about tank size. I've heard people say you should run atleast 5 gallons to prevent constant filling, but I see that you've only got a 2.5 tank.

Do I need to run a bigger tank? Also, what's the downside to running two smaller 2.5 gallon tanks compared to one 5?

Would one 444c compressor be good? Or is dual highly recommended?

There's a thread here that outlines equations I derived to approximate necessary tank size for a given setup.

Were I you, I would run at least 4 gallons. Run 200 psi if you use Accuair components, 175 if you use V2. I have a 2.5 gallon at 200 psi, but I don't think it's sufficient for my expectations. I get away with it, but I am constantly wishing I had more air.

If you can afford twin compressors, I would run them, both for speed and redundancy. Were I redoing my setup, I would run twin 444cs or 480cs, or a single Air Zenith. In your car, I would also want to isolate them very well, since twin compressors are going to be very loud in a station wagon.

[Creation]

Thank you. I'm starting to read up on dos and don'ts so all the information is helpful.

There's a thread here that outlines equations I derived to approximate necessary tank size for a given setup.

Were I you, I would run at least 4 gallons. Run 200 psi if you use Accuair components, 175 if you use V2. I have a 2.5 gallon at 200 psi, but I don't think it's sufficient for my expectations. I get away with it, but I am constantly wishing I had more air.

If you can afford twin compressors, I would run them, both for speed and redundancy. Were I redoing my setup, I would run twin 444cs or 480cs, or a single Air Zenith. In your car, I would also want to isolate them very well, since twin compressors are going to be very loud in a station wagon.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

I just realized I failed to answer one of your questions. The key disadvantages to twin tanks are additional complication, additional potential failure points, and additional potential leaks. That said, I would have no qualms about running twin tanks. In fact, when I revise my system, I am very likely to just purchase an additional Viair 91028 and pair them together, since small, attractive 200 psi tanks seem so hard to come by.

[Creation]

Got my new shift knob installed!

[Creation]

Finally getting a chunk of time to sit down and start sketching out my trunk setup using OmniGraffle that Sam recommended! Now, if I could figure out how to use this program i'd be good.