Stance Rant

[Petis]

^ I was about to point that out as well

[Poon]

A lot has been posted since my post this morning, which makes it hard to reply but to those talking about fake vs. real wheels. Someone said something along the lines that it is a shame that I'm finishing my $20k 2002 build with Rota RB's, rather than Panasports or Minilites? Why? Rota RB's are lightweight, strong, and look great on the car. They're made in Japan, and don't cost $1500 a set, so they're bad?

To the argument pertaining that we should not buy wheels because they have stolen a design? This is a terrible argument. All through out history, the Automotive industry has been about stealing other peoples ideas, and making similar product to what is a known success. The argument saying companies like Rota do next to nothing in terms of R&D is horse shit. I'd really like to see some evidence backing that up.

This same argument would mean that I should not buy panasports, because they are knock off's from minilites....yet Panasports is an expensive and well respected name brand, so it's ok? I don't really understand that. I guess I shouldn't buy a Datsun 510 either, because it's a 2002 knock off, correct?

I don't really get the argument, because the wheels are GOOD, the style is taken from somewhere else (like everything else in history) and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[Petis]

^ I don't know why people are still bringing up the price of wheels. Nobody ever said that someone needs to spend a ton of money on wheels. The word 'cheap' has nothing to do with price in this discussion. By 'cheap' we are referring to the quality not the cost. You can have legit,high valued wheels for less than a set of new rotas in most cases. I know that was the case for me on more than one occasion.



Please, from this point on (if this thread continues/ subsequent threads) don't liken the dislike of knock-off companies as an argument for spending a lot of money wheels, because that makes you loook really uninformed.

[Bracknaphobia]

Im gonna be "that" guy...

Maybe I'm missing the point here, and I don't know about everyone else, but I come to StanceWorks as a form of communication and camaraderie. I suppose that there must be a difference then, between the stance movement itself and the community surrounding it. It's not much of a community if people get upset over "posers" that should find another hobby because they can't afford a set of Works.

I look forward to being able to come out to shows, meet people, and put names to faces (well,names to screen names and avatars...). If I see some sick cars along the way, that's fantastic, but it's not money, wheels, rust, stickers, or what have you that make a car. It's the stance, fitment, ride height, and imo, the person behind it.

I just thought it a bit interesting to click on a thread entitled "Stance Rant" and find that the rant itself had nothing to do with stance at all.

All that being said, I have a lot of respect for all you guys that are able to lead the way and set the bar for such amazing pieces of engineering that you have made your own. It is really a sight to behold.

[kramerbuccs24]

Going to copy and paste my post from another thread from 4 minutes ago, applies pretty well here, too:

I bought PERFECT condition 4x100 15x7 et38 Kosei K1s WITH 80% tread 205/50/15 Falken Azenis RT-615 tires (top 3 performance tires out there in 15" size) for FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS.

There is NO reason to buy fake wheels. You all fail. They are not "the best option," they are the laziest option.

You want Rotas or these???





I actually miss the Koseis a LOT, they've found a nice new home on my buddy's 450whp civic, though



Rota slips would have looked sooooooo much better on the EG, though *rollseyes*

[Kielan]

Not bad man, not bad

I try.

A lot has been posted since my post this morning, which makes it hard to reply but to those talking about fake vs. real wheels. Someone said something along the lines that it is a shame that I'm finishing my $20k 2002 build with Rota RB's, rather than Panasports or Minilites? Why? Rota RB's are lightweight, strong, and look great on the car. They're made in Japan, and don't cost $1500 a set, so they're bad?

To the argument pertaining that we should not buy wheels because they have stolen a design? This is a terrible argument. All through out history, the Automotive industry has been about stealing other peoples ideas, and making similar product to what is a known success. The argument saying companies like Rota do next to nothing in terms of R&D is horse shit. I'd really like to see some evidence backing that up.

This same argument would mean that I should not buy panasports, because they are knock off's from minilites....yet Panasports is an expensive and well respected name brand, so it's ok? I don't really understand that. I guess I shouldn't buy a Datsun 510 either, because it's a 2002 knock off, correct?

I don't really get the argument, because the wheels are GOOD, the style is taken from somewhere else (like everything else in history) and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

The price of the wheels is not what we are debating, I know plenty of people rolling on $200 wheels, that honestly look better than a lot of wheels out there. What we are saying is that companies like XXR, Rota, ESM, etc. Hurt the "movement" if you will. If these companies developed their own designs no one would have any issue with that, but the fact that they are straight up stealing other companies designs, and using them as their own with subtle differences is just not right.

I understand where you are coming from with "its the automotive industry, and people steal ideas all the time", but they are rarely ever straight up blatant rip offs, there is a reason that these companies charge what they do for wheels (Volk, Work, BBS, etc), and thats because they put months, hell sometimes years, into developing the wheels, and making sure that they are 100% quality parts, where as the replica wheel companies just don't put that same R&D into the wheels, and it shows. Sure they look just as good, but its the quality that just isn't there, and I don't know about you, but I **** it, when replica wheels look like 3 piece wheels, when they are actually 1 piece and you can't take the bolts out.

Spending more money is not what we are saying here, what we are saying is that, if you are patient and actually put effort into finding wheels, you can find the deal of a lifetime, or even OEM wheels you never knew existed before, and be the ONLY person with them on your car. The movement, isn't about everyone having BBS RS's, the movement is about everyone trying their best to make their car original, and be unlike any other car out there, while this is challenge for a lot of people, it should be a challenge they are willing to take on, never have I wanted to be exactly the same as anyone else, I am my own person with my own unique style, and that should be reflected in the car I build. I don't want to have the exact same wheel setup and front end as any one else, I want to do something completely different, something that will piss off a lot of Honda owners, but I know that if I have ******, clearly I am doing something right.

[kramerbuccs24]

I try.


The price of the wheels is not what we are debating, I know plenty of people rolling on $200 wheels, that honestly look better than a lot of wheels out there. What we are saying is that companies like XXR, Rota, ESM, etc. Hurt the "movement" if you will. If these companies developed their own designs no one would have any issue with that, but the fact that they are straight up stealing other companies designs, and using them as their own with subtle differences is just not right.

I understand where you are coming from with "its the automotive industry, and people steal ideas all the time", but they are rarely ever straight up blatant rip offs, there is a reason that these companies charge what they do for wheels (Volk, Work, BBS, etc), and thats because they put months, hell sometimes years, into developing the wheels, and making sure that they are 100% quality parts, where as the replica wheel companies just don't put that same R&D into the wheels, and it shows. Sure they look just as good, but its the quality that just isn't there, and I don't know about you, but I **** it, when replica wheels look like 3 piece wheels, when they are actually 1 piece and you can't take the bolts out.

Spending more money is not what we are saying here, what we are saying is that, if you are patient and actually put effort into finding wheels, you can find the deal of a lifetime, or even OEM wheels you never knew existed before, and be the ONLY person with them on your car. The movement, isn't about everyone having BBS RS's, the movement is about everyone trying their best to make their car original, and be unlike any other car out there, while this is challenge for a lot of people, it should be a challenge they are willing to take on, never have I wanted to be exactly the same as anyone else, I am my own person with my own unique style, and that should be reflected in the car I build. I don't want to have the exact same wheel setup and front end as any one else, I want to do something completely different, something that will piss off a lot of Honda owners, but I know that if I have ******, clearly I am doing something right.

Sorry brother, I agree with most of your post, but if you have ******, that means people are ****** on you. People **** on you because they don't like your shit. People don't like your shit because your shit SUCKS. ****** is not a compliment, if anything it's an insult, it's not complicated.


(when I say "you" I really mean "one," "you" sounds more fluent in a sentence, though )

[Kielan]

Well I mean, like ******, in the sense of not ****** but like "******" where there is a clear jealousy complex going on, its hard to explain you should all just know what I mean..

[Byron]

I think the main issue here is copying. If you see someones car and like how it looks, just enjoy it. You don't have to make yours look exactly like it. You can do similar things, but honestly, pretty much everyone who puts Rota Grids on their Subie, Roofracks on their VW, stickers angled up the rear window/covering a body part, etc. is just doing it for the scene points.


Since we're picking things about the scene that we don't like anyways, lets address the replys to threads on here. Go look at any new thread in the showroom right now. This will be the order of replys:

Sick!

Dope

Looks tight

Sick bro

Awesome! Specs?

Fresh

Looking fresh man


I mean honestly, if you want to reply, at least take the time to think out something original and meaningful about the car. Even saying "Looks sick man, those wheels fit your car great" is better than one "buzz" word replys.

[Bracknaphobia]

Positive feedback is positive feedback. I think it's kind of lame to nitpick that much...

Food for thought: If nobody ever copied someone else, we'd all be running around naked grunting at each other. The same thing applies to the stance scene, and by extension, automobiles in general.

EDIT: In reference to particular parts, however, quality still remains important

[Byron]

Like I said, feel free to do similar things, but don't straight out copy just because that's what everyone else is doing.

I'll use the e30 scene for an example just because I know it so well. People put volvo lips on like crazy because someone found out they fit with minor modifications. They throw them on as quickly as possible, but don't stand back and realize how bad it looks. It's just the accepted thing to do since everyone else does it. The bad part is that it's possible to make a Volvo lip look good by either tucking in the sides or mounting it right side up, but no one does it because thats not how everyone else has it.

It's this type of mindless copying that can ruin a scene. Take the time to do it right or just figure out something else on your own.

[jared1988]

I thought the stance scene was all about having a clean fitment. Get low, roll hard, stunt like a mofo. Do some shit to your car to stand out and make a statement, wear every ***** as a badge of honor. Now I appreciate w/e you do to your car to try and make a statement, I do not always agree, but I always make sure I don’t put you down for it. You want a rusted hood? Cool, not my cup of tea but awesome if you like it. And that’s why I love this scene, everyone is so accepting to different cars or cultures. I appreciate JDM, USDM, EDM, big trucks, little trucks, rally cars, drift cars, vans, wagons, anything. I like cars and I like to work on them, or at least try =P People **** us because we break from the norm, we don't follow the rules. We make our cars "undriveable", we know, stop telling us. The stance didnt just happened, I made it like that.

I can see how some people are upset with it, they try to do all that but keep a clean ass body. Shave this, tuck this, euro that, rare that… minor details make major differences and I’m a firm believer of it. If you really appreciate a certain car for what it is, you’ll noticed that you have euro taillights with a slightly different bulb arrangement, or different grill with headlights sunk in an inch more. But that goes more into the car make specific forum side. Everyone is going to have noobs that ruin a scene, that’s why we **** 98% of Hondas, let them go on their nooby way and you keep your course of legitness.

And people are upset about wheels, if you like them and they make your shit hot then cool. Don’t try to pass them off as legit though. I’m not your father so I’m not going to scold u for buying into a company that copied a wheel design, your a grown ass man/woman you can do what you want, you have to live with your decisions. Don't worry about other people, let other people worry about you. Don't get all worked up cause someone bought fake wheels. I didn’t know what good wheel brands were until recent. I got some shitty ass Azul Razrs that look like Gram Lights. Fuk I’m pissed and embarrassed about it now, at the time I didn’t know, now I know I want and where to look for better wheels at, I’ve been educated.

Sure you can lower a car and it will look good but it’s the shit u do to make it flush that makes me appreciate it more. I know perfect fitment doesn’t just happen (for a lucky few it might). I know there is fender work that has to be done, rim fitting, tire fitting, camber adjustment, alignments, coilover height and shock adjustment, corner balancing. I’m sad to say I have yet to experience any of the tasks listed above. I’ve been lurking, drooling, watching people do this shit with out a car of my own to practice on and all I have is interwebs knowledge (if that even accounts for anything).

Sorry I have short term memory problems mixed with a little ADD but I tried to make a meaningful response from a noob point of view. Please feel free to edumacate me, I have thick skin. Maybe I'm the apitamy of new people that is ruining the scene. I know I love how a car looks thats slammed and flush. I'll take into concideration their work on the rest of the car in a different light.

[SeanDub]

I think the main issue here is copying. If you see someones car and like how it looks, just enjoy it. You don't have to make yours look exactly like it. You can do similar things, but honestly, pretty much everyone who puts Rota Grids on their Subie, Roofracks on their VW, stickers angled up the rear window/covering a body part, etc. is just doing it for the scene points.


Since we're picking things about the scene that we don't like anyways, lets address the replys to threads on here. Go look at any new thread in the showroom right now. This will be the order of replys:

Sick!

Dope

Looks tight

Sick bro

Awesome! Specs?

Fresh

Looking fresh man


I mean honestly, if you want to reply, at least take the time to think out something original and meaningful about the car. Even saying "Looks sick man, those wheels fit your car great" is better than one "buzz" word replys.

Most cars don't warrant a full elaborate response...

[ShanesG]

Fawk some of you mofo's write way too damn much LOL

[Russell_G]

Just saw this..Not going to read it all cause my opinion is this....

The word "stance" has changed over the years and maybe i have been in the game too long but it had meaning in the beginning. Now you throw coils on and you have "stanced" a car....Sorry but it takes more then that to have a stance....Yes in the general term maybe but when the term was first starting to be used is referred to a car or truck that had a thought out tire/wheel/suspension/arch combo. Everything had to flow. The car was well thought out and hours and hours of test fitting and pulling and paint and stretching came in to play. Now i hear everyone talking about it...Honestly it drove me out of cars for a long time...Im coming back slowly(posting new thread soon) and when i come back it will be a slow build that will be like i had back in the day where it had arch work, and the perfect wheel and tire combo....whatever....

I have the same rant as Sean..I saw in the same town as one of my houses and it was a stock car, Lowered, Smoked cheep lights and painted headlights, Stock wheels and one piece of interior done and super ghetto crap. The car had a roll call of all the forums including this one...All the forums listed were of this kind too. I wanted to scrape it all off and leave a note saying that the stickers dont mean its "stanced" 14/6 stock wheels and some spraypainted body parts doesn't make for a show car or anything cool....Try again.

My other rant is the "trend setter" mentality....I know a guy who thinks hes setting trends...1 piece wheels, Coils that are not low, Stretch tires that i may add i was rocking the same wheel width and rim with combo on my daily almost 8 years ago and a stock interior with a few wrapped pieces. I stopped helping the guy on his car cause not only was his E penis about 30 pages long but he was claiming he was doing it all...I had to seat the f'n tire cause his wheel shop wouldn't and he couldn't get it.

Oh well my rant is over..I will crawl back in to my hole.