Inability to enjoy new cars..

[Kielan]

here is another point of view... i have an R56 Cooper S (just like the one in the vid) and this blew my mind, cant believe there are plastic rub-rails inside the engine. plastic parts INSIDE the engine. im sure there are/were other cars with similar setups but this plagued the whole Mini cooper line from 07-10, wtf was thinking BMW.

Mini Cooper "S" Engine Noise - Rattle - YouTube

just makes the whole car seem "cheap" and its anything but that... after seeing this vid im afraid to drive the car just a bit harder.

BMW has been doing this for a long time..

[FunkyWagon]

here is another point of view... i have an R56 Cooper S (just like the one in the vid) and this blew my mind, cant believe there are plastic rub-rails inside the engine. plastic parts INSIDE the engine. im sure there are/were other cars with similar setups but this plagued the whole Mini cooper line from 07-10, wtf was thinking BMW.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6E_BBV_REs"]Mini Cooper "S" Engine Noise - Rattle - YouTube[/ame]

just makes the whole car seem "cheap" and its anything but that... after seeing this vid im afraid to drive the car just a bit harder.

[Kielan]

I've driven my share!
get behind an SRT, ANY of the SRT's and its ungodly power.
what we all love about muscle cars is mod/power. intake on you 335i MIGHT get you some throttle response, intake on a LS motor, that's a solid 20.
and you can make anything handle, frame connectors and traction bars, and 4 links and blah blah bla.

mod-mod, muscle cars respond better.
especially new muscle cars. omg the tuning available for them is insane, the lingenfelter kits are freaking ridiculous!
have you not seen the302 mustang that beat an m3 around a track?

M3 Killer! Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laps Laguna Seca - YouTube

SRT cars in regards to the rest of the competition in that class are actually the slowest and dreadful in the bends. Driving hard in a Challenger SRT was one of the worst experiences of my life.

My post was comparing the 67 gt500 the OP mentioned. The newer American cars prove my point that the newer cars are better in every single category and if one prefers old cars (as do i) it's a matter of aesthetics, not performance.

And people are hitting high 500 hp with a basic pnp tune, intake and exhaust on those 335i's. I think that's pretty comparable to whatever the new muscle cars have going on. That is totally beside the point of this thread though.

400ish if you are FBO*. 500 is usually reserved for upgraded turbos.

You really like audi now huh?

Dude I love my buddies B8 S4. Although my buddies E90 with full m3 suspension bits and coils is a fucking monster. It also makes 440 whp with meth. I have never personally driven it so I can't speak to how well it drives first hand however.

Driving a 135i with just JB4 and an exhaust (makes around 360 wheel) with no other mods, it was still one of the most nimble cars I have ever driven. Such a blast. Those things are serious.

[devon.818]

My post was comparing the 67 gt500 the OP mentioned. The newer American cars prove my point that the newer cars are better in every single category and if one prefers old cars (as do i) it's a matter of aesthetics, not performance.

And people are hitting high 500 hp with a basic pnp tune, intake and exhaust on those 335i's. I think that's pretty comparable to whatever the new muscle cars have going on. That is totally beside the point of this thread though.

we're on the same page, I have no real preferences....I like anything with a motor that people let me put my hands on...

[Jesus Christ]

I've driven my share!
get behind an SRT, ANY of the SRT's and its ungodly power.
what we all love about muscle cars is mod/power. intake on you 335i MIGHT get you some throttle response, intake on a LS motor, that's a solid 20.
and you can make anything handle, frame connectors and traction bars, and 4 links and blah blah bla.

mod-mod, muscle cars respond better.
especially new muscle cars. omg the tuning available for them is insane, the lingenfelter kits are freaking ridiculous!
have you not seen the302 mustang that beat an m3 around a track?

M3 Killer! Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laps Laguna Seca - YouTube

My post was comparing the 67 gt500 the OP mentioned. The newer American cars prove my point that the newer cars are better in every single category and if one prefers old cars (as do i) it's a matter of aesthetics, not performance.

And people are hitting high 500 hp with a basic pnp tune, intake and exhaust on those 335i's. I think that's pretty comparable to whatever the new muscle cars have going on. That is totally beside the point of this thread though.

[devon.818]

Have you driven a muscle car? They suck to drive.

even in a straight line where they are supposed to be legendary, are pretty damn slow in comparison with a chipped 335i, or even a 80's supra with a boost controller.

I've driven my share!
get behind an SRT, ANY of the SRT's and its ungodly power.
what we all love about muscle cars is mod/power. intake on you 335i MIGHT get you some throttle response, intake on a LS motor, that's a solid 20.
and you can make anything handle, frame connectors and traction bars, and 4 links and blah blah bla.

mod-mod, muscle cars respond better.
especially new muscle cars. omg the tuning available for them is insane, the lingenfelter kits are freaking ridiculous!
have you not seen the302 mustang that beat an m3 around a track?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxEhnugwzCc"]M3 Killer! Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laps Laguna Seca - YouTube[/ame]

[Jesus Christ]

You really like audi now huh?

[Kielan]

Anyone who is talking about this topic and hasn't actually driven a new "performance" car. Please exit the thread.

[Kielan]

You're definitely right about everything you said, but it's hard to explain the feeling you receive when you've trained yourself to overcome all of that. Anybody with abs can go to a canyon, or a track and just mash on the brakes with little to no skill, because they have that fail safe. But without abs, you really have to learn your car and it's limits. It's a very rewarding feeling when you're passing brand new cars, in one that's 30 years old that you've built from nothing.

New to me would be 2000+ aswell.

Exactly, it's just not necessary.

Yeah, they're fun because they are already fast. But I would have a lot more fun doing the same thing in a car where I feel more connected to the road. What you're referring to about a shitty car is personality, I should have used the word character earlier instead of personality. The character of a car is more of what (or who) it is. Personality on the other hand, is how the car portrays itself to others (i.e. shitty paint, worn suspension etc). If a car can loose all power, and still roll, stop, and turn the same, then you're truly connected to the ground. I will take a slower car that makes you feel connected, over a fast one where you can't feel anything.

That S4 is one of the most connected driving experiences I've ever had. You're trying to make a case for your "point" with the talk about "personality", no that's called having a shitty car. If your car feels like it's going to fall apart while you're driving, it's a piece of shit. If it has shitty paint because you can't be bothered to take care of it, it's shitty.

There is a difference between patina and a car having character, rather than it being a steaming shit box.

[Jesus Christ]

Have you driven a muscle car? They suck to drive.

even in a straight line where they are supposed to be legendary, are pretty damn slow in comparison with a chipped 335i, or even a 80's supra with a boost controller.

[SheaMoose]

this is spot on. I love when I see guys that are under 25 saying they'd never drive a new car....well if you can't even afford a new car, I don't really think that's a valid argument lol.

hell, I used to be an elitist, my 80's euro piece of shit is better than anything new, nope, I would kick it for a 2013 Shelby mustang in a heartbeat

But what about a 67 Shelby gt500?

[SheaMoose]

ABS is smart you really dont engage it unless it is needed, carburetors suck poor mpg, pain in the ass to tune properly, suck for winter starts, I could go on.

Heated seats were invented in the 50s and many high end luxury cars had them optional starting in the 70s.

Even if you take the electronic controlled stuff. Newer suspensions are worlds better, engines are designed better with more power for the efficiency and size.

Yes the feel may not be the same as it is a more refined vehicle, the computer systems may be more complicated not being as forgiving on mods, the interior may be more plush but cars are not designed for people like you in mind they are looking for the average consumer. Its just to what you are used to.

You're definitely right about everything you said, but it's hard to explain the feeling you receive when you've trained yourself to overcome all of that. Anybody with abs can go to a canyon, or a track and just mash on the brakes with little to no skill, because they have that fail safe. But without abs, you really have to learn your car and it's limits. It's a very rewarding feeling when you're passing brand new cars, in one that's 30 years old that you've built from nothing.

Define "New"? I always say i won't own a car that's been build after 2000. The "best" and most beautifull cars were built in the 90'.

New to me would be 2000+ aswell.

i would say 90's cars had the perfect balance between mechanical and electronic/computerized implementations, even tho a few cars were made with way too many electronics for the time.

i just don't like that there is so much reliance on computers (in every aspect of our lives today actually) that run them and makes the cars maintenance and repair much more expensive and more complicated for the guys who like to get their hand dirty and enjoy working on their cars themselves, you need to be a borderline computer programer to work on some newer cars, simply changing a few minor parts makes all sorts of lights go off on the dash without an "update" or some sort of reset.

Mechanical linkage > Electronic throttle control

Exactly, it's just not necessary.

I would have to disagree, having driven a number of new cars recently and driving their older counterparts. New cars are just as much fun to drive.

I feel a lot of people throw the word "character" around far too much. Because your car doesn't track straight, or drives like shit doesn't mean it has "character" it means that it's a piece of shit. Having a car that's beat up doesn't give it "character". Sure can I see what people are getting at in terms of new car design being less "stimulating" sure. However there are still a ton of new cars on the road that look absolutely fantastic.

The great thing about traction control is, you can turn it off. Do you get more feel through through a mechanical rack? Sure, but how many of you will actually notice a difference when you're really going for it, I bet the numbers are low. People bitch about the 991 having electric steering, 99% of those people, have never even driven a 991.

The most fun I've had in a car in the past year was in my friends 2012 B8 S4. Sure its FBO, and has a few suspension mods, but it is an absolute blast to drive.

Yeah, they're fun because they are already fast. But I would have a lot more fun doing the same thing in a car where I feel more connected to the road. What you're referring to about a shitty car is personality, I should have used the word character earlier instead of personality. The character of a car is more of what (or who) it is. Personality on the other hand, is how the car portrays itself to others (i.e. shitty paint, worn suspension etc). If a car can loose all power, and still roll, stop, and turn the same, then you're truly connected to the ground. I will take a slower car that makes you feel connected, over a fast one where you can't feel anything.

[devon.818]

I would have to disagree, having driven a number of new cars recently and driving their older counterparts. New cars are just as much fun to drive.

I feel a lot of people throw the word "character" around far too much. Because your car doesn't track straight, or drives like shit doesn't mean it has "character" it means that it's a piece of shit. Having a car that's beat up doesn't give it "character". Sure can I see what people are getting at in terms of new car design being less "stimulating" sure. However there are still a ton of new cars on the road that look absolutely fantastic.

The great thing about traction control is, you can turn it off. Do you get more feel through through a mechanical rack? Sure, but how many of you will actually notice a difference when you're really going for it, I bet the numbers are low. People bitch about the 991 having electric steering, 99% of those people, have never even driven a 991.

The most fun I've had in a car in the past year was in my friends 2012 B8 S4. Sure its FBO, and has a few suspension mods, but it is an absolute blast to drive.

this is spot on. I love when I see guys that are under 25 saying they'd never drive a new car....well if you can't even afford a new car, I don't really think that's a valid argument lol.

hell, I used to be an elitist, my 80's euro piece of shit is better than anything new, nope, I would kick it for a 2013 Shelby mustang in a heartbeat

[devon.818]

COPO Camaro ...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f03RM5i3cDs"]2012 COPO Camaro: GM's Baddest Factory Camaro Ever! - HOT ROD Unlimited Episode 6 - YouTube[/ame]

m3 or an ISF
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY3grKsPFbw"]BMW M3 Vs Lexus ISF Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]

I mean come on man, there are plenty of new cars that are kick ass.
if its RWD , you can have fun.

[mrg7243]

Mechanical linkage > Electronic throttle control

I do 100% agree with that. Has a dead pedal feel and lag plus you never know if it is actually 100% open or not. All the pedal is now a truly a go pedal