My Lowly Opinion

[Curt_pnw]

I read all the posts in this thread. It took longer than I expected, and it also took longer to write up this response. lol. The only reason I replied at all is because I love this community of people. The cars bring us together, the relationships we build are more important than anything else IMO.

It seems like the people who are displeased with the current state and direction of S/W are few and far between compared with how many of us love this site, are grateful to have it in our lives, and still love the community even though it has changed over the past couple years.

The focus seems to have stayed as close to the roots as possible. Providing quality car features, products, and a passion for the community that is as strong, or even stronger now than it ever has been. It may be hard to look at all of this from their prospective but I believe Mike, Andrew, and Ben have done an amazing job with the opportunities they have been given. No sell outs here in my book, just guys doing what they love. Also, there is still a strong family community surrounding S/W here in the Pacific NW. I am very grateful to know the people I have met through this site, some of which I consider my best friends. I look forward to see this place progress even more, and wish the very best to you guys who run the site.

P.S. I will be visiting the headquarters as soon as I can. I need to see that Model A in the flesh.

[ZammoTheChoppa]

Wow what a long read got nothing done at work this morning, anyway.

I ended up on stanceworks because I liked what I saw.

+1 this


I am not an overly active poster on here but i will add my 7 cents now (cause im 5c better than yall)

I like cars, love even if you will, all cars all mechanical things dont really care what kind as long as it looks good and goes ok i dont care what it is.
I really dont care if a car is built or brought, personnally i build. One day i may even start a thread
I haunt my forums but generally dont join or post but this was one place i felt had much worthy content that i could in some way contribute too.
I loved the lambo and HREs are the bomb even if i cant afford them
My opinion on the gloves is mixed personnally I think they are for posers and hipsters and should only be worn by people that drive open top cars in real cold places. I believe real drivers need to feel the road through wheel and gloves take away from that sensation for me anyway.
Many communities lose their way as they grow larger and a new generation of people join
i would like to hope that the new build threads on here will still be as the old are now
I will still come here regardless of what happens as this place has a uniqueness to it that you dont get on many forums.
In the end I wanna see your Porsche Rio satin gloss rusty sticker covered scraping $2000 a rim with retreads cartruck and how it come about

Theres not much else i wanna say as its all been said already and I dont realy understand OPs problem either.??????

Thats all.

PS I cant punctuation so dont even start you educated elitists.

PPS Dont eat the yellow snow.

\m/ o_O \m/

Bai

[padraigmk3]

First off, I'm going to make my font bigger so you don't have to squint to read it.

as far as the Lambo.. I dont like it, but i dont see why it doesnt deserve a feature. Its not like the car was featured becuase its expensive. It was featured because it looks good, its different, people like it,... Just like every other car that has been featured here.

That's the most succinct way to sum up my thoughts on the lambo.

I agree that I'd like to see more of a focus on bringing content from the forum to the blog features, and vice versa. The blog isn't an effective tool for discussing content like the forum is, so it only makes sense to duplicate features in the showroom section or maybe the creation of a "features" sub forum entirely.





I want to explain something guys, so bare with me. This is what first brought me to SW:

Sure, it's not the fastest, lowest, flashiest, weirdest RX7 I've ever seen and the photos aren't as polished as they generally are now, but one thing that this SW feature showed that really changed everything I thought i knew about the car community was this photo:

Seeing those two guys exude happiness because of their shared love for that car made me re-assess the negative feelings I had towards the car community. I realized that things had changed since I was younger. Now I had found a place full of people who shared my mindset. Before I found stanceworks, I was a closeted car dude. I grew up in a small city where I was the odd one out, where I didn't fit in, especially when it came to my taste in cars, and the stuff I thought was cool. I never went to meets, or shows, or helped people with their builds.

Thanks to the forum here, and the SW community I can honestly say all of that has changed. I haven't been here long (11-01-2010) so I can't attest to what things like were at the beginning here, but in the time since I've joined I've received nothing but love, constructive criticism and encouragement.

I think if there's a shift, it's more in terms of maintaining quality without sacrificing your vision. When people talk about "exclusivity" doesn't that work both ways? If SW were to cater to only one tax bracket and excluded the cars, products and features that appeal to people that can afford it THAT would be exclusivity as well. me, I can't afford $150 pair of driving gloves right now. I'd rather put that money towards making my car move again, and that's why offering higher priced products doesn't exclude the people on a budget because they're not going to buy those products anyway.

I owe a lot to the site founders, the SW team and all the friends I've made on here, those I've met in person, and those who I haven't yet, and those who I might not ever physically meet. Some have left SW since I've joined, some have been banned, others post less now. I want to see SW continue to succeed and grow because in the end, I believe it's one of the few positive, respectful and ego-less forces in the car culture world.

[Stephen]

I have to agree with Andrew (rally) 100%. The lambo alone doesn't warrant a "shift" to the unattainable. Nic's car, my car, John Zuberek's cars, Mikes shop truck, the y33, the mr2, and many more are all built by the owners and the community with whatever blood and sweat they take from them, to make them just how the owner envisioned, and no one else.


If that's not what Stanceworks is about, I don't know what is.

[Masonbarnard]

I'm not some big member or anything, but stancework's is still legit, and probably will be for a while. As long as people don't think their better then other people just because their # of post's, their car, or anything then this forum will continue to grow, and be a daily routine like it has been.

as far as the Lambo.. I dont like it, but i dont see why it doesnt deserve a feature. Its not like the car was featured becuase its expensive. It was featured because it looks good, its different, people like it,... Just like every other car that has been featured here.

[Stancy E39]

I'm a new memeber to this forum and came hear after owning my BMW for a few months. What brought me here is that the people here modify there cars and do it in a creative tastefully way for often cheap. I have had multiple cars on coils and when searching the bmw forums all the old people where saying don't mess with factory stuff. They all basically thought that these cars where built by the hands of god and that in no way could they me made better.

I come to this forum and see odd cars modified, old cars, crappy cars, high end cars. The one thing they all have in common is that the people who built these cars have 20w/50 pumping through there veins. Sure when I started out I did ricey mods. I have evolved as do the youngsters coming into it now. This is a great place to share expierences in all that we have built. I'm glad the forum is broad and not all BMW'S, Audi's, and VW'S. I have been on many car forums and this forum seems like a speed hunters with a forum. Speed hunters is a big player in the automotive culture and I feel the stance works is becoming huge because its open to everyone with automotive passion. Thanks for a place to come and learn and be inspired and keep it up gentlemen. Job well done

[Jroc]

This post is full of walloftxt.

Everything that needs to be said has been said. Only critique I have is to have a thread about the feature so we can all chime in about how fucking awesome it is.

Mike, ben, andrew, thank you for everything. I feel like you guys are staying as pure as possible and just stepping the game up. I mean, if one of us won the lotto would we not build a lambo in the same exact fashion? How is that selling out?

Also, each and everyone of us are a big fan of sticking out, whether it be the finish of the wheels, to the shift knob, or a photoshoot location. So why wouldn't an event holder try to switch it up from the random parking garage or stadium parking lot and hold a show at a golf course, A HIGH END GOLF COURSE.

I hope to meet some of the core SW guys(mike, nic, moose) one day and buy them a beer.

[soab]

I am a very new very non-active member and this is hands down my favorite automotive forum. The broadness of it and its openness and accepting of any and every make and model is exactly what I am about and what I have always wanted to find. You guys have succeeded in making an amazing open community and I can not thank you enough for that.

Even as a newcomer however I have always felt that it is not what it used to be. I could never really explain it but I always felt like Stanceworks embodied everything I am but I had this underlying feeling that I had missed it. I have read this thread and have not found the straight answer but I am glad to see that my inexplicable un-easiness with the site was not just me being a hypochondriac and over thinking things.

I think what this boils down to is this site used to be a family, now it is run by a family. I struggle to find the words to say without being redundant, Jamil probably said it best, but I believe it is hard to have a family of 50,000. I have found more true enthusiasts here and that is why I love this site, but it is something entirely different from what it was when it first began. I would LOVE to be able to go back and see the site in its start. This is an incredibly tight community but it centers around a family that has become overwhelmed. I say that in no way as an attack, or saying that they have taken the wrong path but I think that is the center of the issue.

Motocaddy's post made me wish I had more positive constructive things to say, but I think he really hit the heart of the issue, in a very tangible way. I OP's statement is entirely valid I believe he went astray with concrete examples such as the Lambo. I believe the issue is not tangible or specific, but a very vague sense of family that people fell has been lost, or rather transformed into a community.

I know I rarely contribute but I have struggled with this since I have been on this site and I hope some of what I said made sense. The manner in which y'all have continued this thread has been unparalleled to any online forum I have ever seen and it is this respect and diversity that I will stay around for. I hope that some of that made sense and I was not too long winded, however if I was offensive or unproductive please let me know.

[LuckyBoyOne3]

I like this place way too much to dislike anything. The line walked here has been done to the best of anyones ability. Wavering is a part of life, and we all do it. But keeping your feet on the path for the course taken is what's important. Kudos to S|W for doing it right.

I also like the number of "edited" posts... it shows we choose our words carefully.

Words for evening thought. Wise beyond your years Mr.Foster.

[smoky0937]

Well, I feel completely unqualified to even post in this thread but what the hell.
All these comments about the exclusivity of SW blow my mind. I cannot fathom why showing high end cars and selling quality crafted products is a bad thing. If a someone close to me gets a new job, a new car, new house etc, I don't get jealous and and whine about how they've changed and left me behind. If they truly are a real friend, I'm ecstatic for them. So many people are complaining about how things have changed; change isn't always a bad thing and from what I've seen (a mostly outsiders perspective), it seems to be change for the good. Personally, I enjoy high quality things and if I can't afford them right now, well, it just gives me more motivation honestly.
With that said, I've only been a member since 2010, don't really have that many posts, and have never posted a thread of my own because I know for a fact no one wants to see my car, but I rarely miss a day where I don't check the builds section or pop into the OT section. I can't say that about any other site on the internet and that has to say something about SW.

[theseeker411]

My two cents doesn't matter much, but here goes:

I used to be a moderator on mye28.com, and I remember when Mike first posted up pics of Rusty, back before S|W had become reality. Easily 98% percent of the community there flat out ***** what Mike had done to his car, and that was before he rusted the thing and chopped the top. He and I used to have some lengthy discussions about it over AIM (god, remember that shit?), and I think he was a bit surprised that I was stoked on what he was doing, seeing as how I had been a part of the e28 crowd for a long time.

Some on mye28 said that the stance movement would be a trend, and that it'd be dead in a year. They still H.A.T.E everything associated with Mike, S|W, the Lowly Gentlemen, etc. But look at it now. 3 years on, and this site and community is hands down the best I've been around. I've made some amazing friendships with Mike, Jeremy, C-Hutch, etc because of this site. I'm better friends with the people I know from this site than with people I knew on mye28 for 6+ years. It blows my mind that I'm so close to the friends I've made here and I've only known the majority of them for less than 3 or so years. That's why this community and movement is more than a trend. That bond we've been able to forge in such a short time is nothing short of amazing. I didn't come to this site and abandon mye28.com because of the cars, or the blog. I'm here and will stay here because of the amazing people I've met here that share my passion of well done, ridiculously low cars.

[TheNeek]

Yeah... but that dude has a cool wife with a good taste in obscure cars.

In men too

I like being here. I will continue to do so.
I like that the build section usually has more people viewing than the showroom (that says something).
I like the relaxed atmosphere
I like that you get what you give around here.
I like seeing what Mike and the crew have done coming from humble beginnings.
I like that I'm the only one cracking jokes in this thread.
I like this place way too much to dislike anything. The line walked here has been done to the best of anyones ability. Wavering is a part of life, and we all do it. But keeping your feet on the path for the course taken is what's important. Kudos to S|W for doing it right.

I also like the number of "edited" posts... it shows we choose our words carefully.

[LuckyBoyOne3]

That brown E21 is so played out.

Yeah... but that dude has a cool wife with a good taste in obscure cars.

[Moose]

I don't understand the complaint as a whole. The site started off small, and it was an awesome community then and still is to this day. I have been involved in various ways since the beginning, and have seen Stanceworks evolve into something far greater than it was when it started. It is now a company that has partners in small one man companies like Dorbitz Designs, and Adam's Rotors, yet also is paired with big names like Airlift and HRE. This is a site that was originally started as a way to get away from the people at bimmerforums who thought slamming cars and fitting wide wheels was a joke, and "ruined cars".

"Stance" is not a new movement by any means, but just in the past few years has become a widespread phenomenon. I have seen my fair share of people come and go, mostly who were just intrigued by the trend, but not actually passionate about it. In that same regards there are still the people who I have seen here from day 1, still as into this as ever, and still spending the greater part of their days wrenching on their cars. The small community is still going strong, and the groups of friends wrenching on their cars is still the basis of why we do this. I have spent more of my nights than I can even count at friends houses working on our cars, whether it be putting in a motor that doesn't belong, or perfecting the ride height and wheel fitment. That is still going on to this day, and is not going to ever stop. The core of the community is still here, Stanceworks has just had a chance to expand, and make itself into something more than it was before. The Lamborghini is something that absolutely deserves a spot on the home page, just as much as Nic's e21. The look that we all love so much has gained enough widespread appeal that a person with a $250,000 super car has taken an interest in it. That is fucking cool in itself, considering this was all seen as a joke 3-4 years ago. Did the owner of that car wrench on it himself? No, likely not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be displayed.

I personally love the merchandise that SW/Lowly Gentleman has put out, and am not quite sure what the issue there is. I would much rather see high end products like the leather wallets and driving gloves pair along side the core t-shirts than the bullshit other companies put out. The SW/LG products are often times free of any major branding, where as the StanceNation and Canibeat products just make you into a walking billboard, from their shirts, down to their shitty lanyards and bottle openers and other various junk. Have you guys complaining about that ever stopped to ask yourself what you would have done differently?

I am close friends with Mike, and also know Andrew and Ben well, I have seen all these decisions come into play over the years to form what Stanceworks is today. I see why each piece of the puzzle was chosen, and it all makes sense to me. It is damn cool to see the forum a kid from Tennessee started become what it is today, and I don't think it has sold out in any sense of the phrase. There have simply been opportunities taken that will allow what we are all passionate about to further itself in the automotive world, and continue to be taken more seriously. It is easy to step back, and complain about how have things have changed, without considering why they have. It would be disappointing if this was still a small website, with a small community, and was kept that way simply to not try and change the way things were, as massive amounts of opportunities would have been passed up. Quite frankly put, I believe the main cause for the complaint is the fact that many of the "OG" people who used to be relevant, no longer are, mostly due to the fact they have not produced anything new as of late. You can't expect your BMW dropped on wheels to stay exclusive or unique forever, especially if you haven't done anything new in years. The way I have seen it, many people produced a car that got them the attention they wanted, then pulled away, and the community evolved on without them. It seems as if those of you who pulled away are unhappy with how things have progressed, but unless you were there putting your input into how things were progressing, you don't really have a say in it. If you have some proposal on how you would do things differently from here, I am sure Mike/Andrew/Ben would be happy to hear it. You should have been voicing that as things were happening however, rather than after the fact. Most of you are close friends with the people who run Stanceworks, did you ever call and let them know that you were unhappy with something along the way? I just don't see a massive complaint thread with no solution offered as anything worthwhile, or necessary, you may as well have kept the opinion to yourself.

[Dr.AK]

I'm sitting here, reading this thread and I really don't know what to think about this. I really don't get the drama surrounding the topic.

Yes, SW has evolved from what it started as. It's grown to a more 'serious' state, nothing bad about that. Yes, of course they have turned it into a kind of business - anyone with the same opportunities and the same passion / drive would have done the same. I know I would have. This doesn't mean they're 'sell outs' or have lost their driving passion about stanced cars or anything like that.

At the core it's still the same to me. On this note, I also don't see why anyone gets so hung up about the Lambo - Stanceworks had a hand in the wheel design, apparently, so it's only logical (and pretty awesome) that they get involved with 'building' fitting 'demo car' and also showing it to the world. Nothing wrong with that. Just the fact that it's a Lambo of all things seems to get people's panties in a twist - I'm sure if it was something of a more 'reasonable' or 'affordable' supercar, like some kind of Porsche, the outcry wouldn't be half as big. Hell, HRE is one of the sponsors, it's only natural that something like this would sooner or later happen and end up as a blog post. Not sure why people are so upset.

The blog posts are pretty much always interesting, but in truth it's the forums where the 'magic' happens as it were. They've stayed pretty much the same. There was a time when the bords were flooded with bandwagoners with stickerbombed rustbombs, but nowadays it's a pretty evened out bunch with mostly clean cars and level headed people (apart from very few examples).

It's the people who make the site what they are. I love the forums - yes, there's sometimes some retarded bickering; you get that everywhere where lots of unique personalities meet, it's unavoidable - they're some of the most open and unique message boards I've been on. As long as they're active, I'll be here. In fact, I'm planning a trip to the UK (mostly because it'll be a bit cheaper than one to the US and also because I'll be able to take my Touring) this summer - just because I want to meet as much of the SW people as I can.

Mike, Ben, Andrew and all others involved - in my opinion you're doing a good job. Even if I may sound like a nut-swinger saying this.


/edit: Pretty much what Moose said. He's just a tiny bit more eloquent than me, it seems.