In the news; BBS goes bankrupt [again]

[J.Wolfe]

some of the points made make me wonder, like honestly do you guys read what you are putting in text haha...

anyone telling people if they dont have the money to buy baller shit then stop while your ahead? you do realize remarks like these in turn hurt the manufacturers and the hobby of car modifying as well.

why in the world would you want to rule out any possible future buyers and criticize them for not having money up front to buy top notch products. you do know that people buy lower quality things with the intentions of eventually upgrading... this is a process, as is everything else in life. If everyone in the car scene never bought fake parts and just the expensive things then they would not be so unique and baller and in human nature will still seek the need to find better/more unique products to stand out anyways. you guys cant preach enough to change how life works... your taking out factors and acting like they dont exist when in fact this is a hobby at the end of the day...you can go about your hobby any way you feel obligated to. so dont call people out for not wanting/choosing to buy real parts. for some, kids have got to be fed, roofs have to be put on top of peoples heads, and bills have got to be payed. if you can manage all that and still blow money on a hobby then cool for you. if not the clearly priorities are elsewhere.

everyone's first car is not a $50xxx item. they started with a piece of crap their momz gave them and were happy. im sure BMW, Audi, and Mercedes isnt benefiting, but tough shit. they deal with it.

its the people that cant necessarily afford the best things, that make you look better with the quality parts. if there was no need to want and to improve ones car then why are we all even here in the first place...
if your worried more about the manufacturers and the logistics of this and less the fact that this is in no way shape or form life decisions and thats its a simple hobby, then you maybe need to just stop being involved in the car community. cause your killing it for the businesses as much as the next guy with rotas wanting to better his car. preaching, that because he has fake wheels, its an automatic classification that he will never be able to get real wheels/parts. when your just wrong and possibly lost one more potential buyer in the future.

summary:
dont be the one to group and classify a person. as everyone has different situation in life. telling them to just stop modding cars is probably the most un thought out comment yet... i dont even need to explain more as to why.


and even if you genuinely feel bad for one manufacturer going out of business then lol for you caring so much about a topic thatll never get solved or fixed. especially with the ranting of people and diminishing of ones that want to even mod a car and upgrade parts hurts just as much

go step back and look at the big picture. rotas and other fake parts make you, the people with real parts, get the respect and appreciation you have. if the community threw all the fake part reppers out and just had real wheel after real wheel after real wheel, then yay you win right? you have completely taken any future success to modding in first place slowing down the production of EVERY aspect of the car community, not just a single part or brand as BBS as the population of this would be cut to a 1/4 or maybe even more of what it is now. manufacturers thrive off competition. without it they are shit out of luck as well

[runningpanda]

You fail to see the simplicity of what I'm saying. If someone can make it, whether it be shittier and it's a fraction cost of the real thing, someone will probably buy it.

I'm not arguing on morals. I'm not even arguing. I'm just stating that people will buy anything.

Again, I am not in support of it, but people will buy reps no matter what moral or economic argument someone makes.

[runningpanda]

Sure, if someone will buy it, then whoever is making it has a product.
If someone is willing to buy it, then... well... yeah.
I'm not supporting it, just saying.

[Average_Jerk]

OEM is always the money maker. You don't get contracts and orders that size for the aftermarket industry, ever.

true, very true. the general consumer will never have the same demand as a company like say Toyota

[runningpanda]

The whole buying real over fake and whatnot is a matter of opinion. We can debate all day about why everyone can save for real wheels, but the fact is, most people don't feel the worth in saving up and spending a couple thousand on wheels. Kielan, you obviously want the real deal and feel very strongly in representing the real company. Great. But you're not going to sway the others who don't agree with you.
I want nice wheels and am saving for a good set, but I'll never tell someone who owns and likes their fake wheels to GTFO.
People will buy what they want to and it's all dependent upon the persons drive and desire for wheels.

OEM is always the money maker. You don't get contracts and orders that size for the aftermarket industry, ever.

[Rally]

Yah, I'm sure the aftermarket industry has taken a big hit. It'd make sense that Eclipse's OEM counterpart was a bit more stable as long as the OEM companies they cater to are able to stay afloat and continue using their stereos as options in their cars.

I could easily be wrong too. It's all speculation as I haven't searched around for articles on the bankruptcy yet.

I just can't imagine that BBS's aftermarket sales figures compare to the money made manufacturing a massive number of OEM wheels.

[Average_Jerk]

Realistically speaking this probably has very very little to do with replica wheels and it'd be great if this didn't become another one of those threads. BBS probably makes 95% of their money manufacturing OEM wheels for various car companies. Their aftermarket, while respected, probably isn't their main money maker. The fact that LM sales might be down a few percentage points due to reps (generous figure) would probably have very little effect on a company that large declaring bankruptcy.

Blaming this on replica wheels is silly IMO. I still don't agree with replica wheels and there is proof that it damages brand identity....but it's nowhere near strong enough to bring down a company of this size. If you want to lay blame on something, point fingers at the economic issues we've been having. It's hurting car companies which in turn hurts the company that manufactures many of the OEM wheel options.

Which is funny because the exact opposite is happening in car audio. Last year one of the very top quality companies (Eclipse) announced that they will be shutting down. But, their OEM division (Fujitsu-ten) will be staying open.

[Rally]

Realistically speaking this probably has very very little to do with replica wheels and it'd be great if this didn't become another one of those threads. BBS probably makes 95% of their money manufacturing OEM wheels for various car companies. Their aftermarket, while respected, probably isn't their main money maker. The fact that LM sales might be down a few percentage points due to reps (generous figure) would probably have very little effect on a company that large declaring bankruptcy.

Blaming this on replica wheels is silly IMO. I still don't agree with replica wheels and there is proof that it damages brand identity....but it's nowhere near strong enough to bring down a company of this size. If you want to lay blame on something, point fingers at the economic issues we've been having. It's hurting car companies which in turn hurts the company that manufactures many of the OEM wheel options.

Us poor people suck, huh?
It's great if you can afford to put 3k on wheels, very nice, I for one just can't afford that.
Hell, I can't even afford wheels that cost a grand. So fake is my only option if I want something remotely "nice".
Don't put the blame on us poor people, dammit.

I bought genuine SSRs for $1200, and genuine Fabulous wheels for $900. That insane set of Rays Victrix? $1600. Sold the SSRs for less, so the next guy got an even better deal.
Us poor people don't have to suck.

[JSanders]

u don't live in a villa when u can only afford a trailer

What if the trailer looks/feels/acts like a villa for a fraction of the price?


Sorry I had to point out your fallacy. I am by no means supporting fake wheel companies.

[Down]

Us poor people suck, huh?
It's great if you can afford to put 3k on wheels, very nice, I for one just can't afford that.
Hell, I can't even afford wheels that cost a grand. So fake is my only option if I want something remotely "nice".
Don't put the blame on us poor people, dammit.

[Dudermagee]

Nothing wrong with having cheap wheels. Thats why I got Enkei RPF1's, next time I'm probly going to buy some used baller rims, then maybe some Brand new ones.
But you're kinda dumb if you have reps, fuck you, your Roolex watch, and your Oaakley glasses.

[P78]

this whole conversation is moronic

without bbs world would be a whole different place

okay they are expensive wheels but with an epic design

do a poll on any car forum

who wants a set of bbs
who want a fake wheel

think the results will be stunning

and yeah if u don't have the money
go jerk off

u don't live in a villa when u can only afford a trailer

[Oxer]

Anyone else see the self contradiction?

Anyway, in for future entertainment.

I did.

no contradiction...?

they were the wheels i wanted, but did not have the fitment and specs i would have ideally liked... so i got rid of them. doesnt kill the fact they were wheels i wanted. i just realized that even though i possessed them i still had not possessed the look without dishing even more money...

skibum291 why in the world did you quote me and say its people like these guys? did you even read what i said AT ALL? i didnt buy fake wheels. i bought real rs's from a third party seller that bought them, refinished them, and sold them...

A true wheel whore Buys any wheel and finds a way to refinish them to the size they want, using all neccisary avenues to achieve this, And will not sell off wheels which have had blood sweat and tears poured into them.

That's where the contradiction is.

15s are an no go on my teg, ill never rock 15's again as they are too small for that platform. its just a known fact for acura/honda owners. I already payed all my money for the wheels. to spend another 600 for lips, and then have to pay to get them taken apart/ re assembled is just not practical. Im a college kid. i dont need to be wasting my time and money with one set of wheels like that. yea they would have been "baller" but not for the price and having a size i dont even want in the first place...

15"s aren't too small for the EG/DC platform. 16"s are the largest any person should use on them.

I would highly look here ^ for the real problem behind the demise of BBS



fwd... not ment to be offensive, i just curse a lot, its late and im just trying to get my point across/devils advocate

I HAVE bought brand new "real" wheels before... worst $3800 ever spent.. They do the same thing as the "fake" ones... BBS wheels break too.. There are just as many pics around of bent and trashed BBS. Everyone sees pics of a broken rota here or there... yea because they are driven on constantly. Daily driven all year around, the works... They often see a lot more harsh conditions than the $4000 real wheels you "rock." And even the guys who really "use" their BBS motorsports wheels on the track and shit... well tracks are about the most well groomed roads around, no shit they dont hit a pot hole at laguna seca and break..

You go take your $1000 per wheel BBS and go hit a BIG FUCKING POT HOLE. Then take a $250 per wheel ROTA and hit the same hole. If there is a noticable difference, then I am convinced... But never once have I seen someone say "oh shit I broke the rota that was on my drivers front on a pot hole, but I hit the same bump with the BBS I had on my back wheel and it was perfect"

BBS can suck my balls and so can the guys who run "REAL" wheels. It isnt our fault they dont invest well and dont offer products that main stream consumers can put to use... We dont care how good of wheels you make, if your ass is out of business. Lets see BBS make some decent affordable wheels to compete with ROTA and I will start buying them constantly, but I DRIVE MY CAR..... A LOT and over everything in every condition all year around... I can either buy crazy expensive polished BBS that will get oxidized and beat to hell, because i dont have the time to properly care for them, or I can get some Rotas used for like $500, trash them, refinish them and then sell them off for $200 months later and get another set.

It makes no sense for me to buy real wheels... Now tell me why it makes sense for you to actually buy wheels that expensive, besides custom sizing and offsets.

Cliff notes..

I hit a big hole and crack a rota...cost me $250 tops... I can keep 2 spare rotas around the house in case for $500. I hit the same hole with my BBS and maybe crack it, but definitely at least bend it.. Im looking at $200 to repair it with a week or 2 downtime or $1k to replace it if the hit is THAT bad.

Plus, find me a company that makes me "REAL" VMR V710s.... I wouldnt trade the wheels that are on my car for anything else. I really like them. Granted, there is no "real" version of them.. but VMR is a "fake" wheel company.

Dude, You can put the point accross all you want how if you damage any wheel, you have to pay to fix it, only more if its a genuine wheel. But at the end of the day, People who are in this Game of stance will hold more respect for those who value their wheels, rather then those who seek respect via cheaper avenues.

northmiler89

also what people dont seem to understand is rota was made and intended for one class of indivitual in the community, and real wheels like bbs were made and designed for another.

they dont touch on each others toes like people feel and preach because rota started for those who CANT afford real wheels. if that is a problem then why are we even living in a world where we are free to choose what we please.

Rota's motto isnt "we copy to steal all the customers that would buy real wheels and have them instead buy ours" its "we are going to build affordable wheels that in fact fit in with the culture of wheel designs that people like and prefer, if your not the richest, we still want to give you the opportunity to have the chance to mod a car and appreciate the look of it." these replica companies are not out to sabotage by any means... they are what we call smart. they are making more money because they are appealing to the middle and low class, which is 2/3rds the population. Good to them if they made the simple move of smart marketing and was successful.

This isn't true. When you replicate something that is already on the market, you automatically know you are stepping on peoples toes and ARE going to effect other companies.

Thats like a cop saying "I shot the civilian because I THOUGHT he was reaching for a gun while he was pulling out his wallet to pay for his morning coffee." It doesn't make it right.

This topic has been slaughtered to death about 20 times on this forum. If you read some of the other threads, there are very many legitimate points made as to why buying replicas is wrong. Seriously take a read and you might change your mind, or atleast have a different perspective on it. All these points that you said have been discussed and many other points that you wouldn't think of have been brought up.

This. Anyone who really feels the need to argue their point, don't. Every possible avenue has been discussed in other threads many times. We dont beat dead horses here, so dont make me close this thread.