Automobile Enthusiasm: What's it mean to you?

[Okin]

He's being a successful troll.

I don't agree with a few of the latest statements, but I am interested to see where this goes.

Ok..... The wheels? or what I said?

[2K7MS6]

As I'm new to this board and new to the rep vs. real wheels game, I'm going to tread lightly. I think everyone has made some very valid points. I agree with supporting the original company that developed, tested, etc. these real wheels. The same can be said about a lot of things. Take TVs for example... you can go to Best Buy and buy a Sony or a Samsung, which put a lot of time and high end parts into their stuff to make it the "best" on the market. Or you can buy an Insignia or Westinghouse TV for a lot less. I think everyone has a unique situation, and each should be taken as such. With the replica wheels, I think proper education on the consumer's part is key. Research what you're buying. That being said, I don't think the people who buy replica wheels will ever buy the real deal, simply because they personally can justify the money. And unfortunately, that will probably never change. I don't think this will really hurt the big guys too much because they were never a prospective customer in the first place...? However, when these people show up, I think constructive criticism is key. No flaming. Make them aware of the disadvantages of these wheels in a polite, professional manner. Maybe they will change their mind on their next purchase.

I also noticed this thread is titled "Automobile Enthusiasm: What's it mean to you?" Yet the topic immediately got to wheels. There's a whole lot more to a car than wheels. Let's talk about other aspects of a car that are important to us also!

[smoky0937]

I reread my post and realized I left out a couple of meaningful words but I'm glad you could figure what I was saying.

Also I enjoy the fact that 2 such radically different schools of thought can be discussed without too much childishness? dunno if that a word

[Kielan]

Ok..... The wheels? or what I said?

What others have said, you were right.

[WhiteStripes]

As I'm new to this board and new to the rep vs. real wheels game, I'm going to tread lightly. I think everyone has made some very valid points. I agree with supporting the original company that developed, tested, etc. these real wheels. The same can be said about a lot of things. Take TVs for example... you can go to Best Buy and buy a Sony or a Samsung, which put a lot of time and high end parts into their stuff to make it the "best" on the market. Or you can buy an Insignia or Westinghouse TV for a lot less. I think everyone has a unique situation, and each should be taken as such. With the replica wheels, I think proper education on the consumer's part is key. Research what you're buying. That being said, I don't think the people who buy replica wheels will ever buy the real deal, simply because they personally can justify the money. And unfortunately, that will probably never change. I don't think this will really hurt the big guys too much because they were never a prospective customer in the first place...? However, when these people show up, I think constructive criticism is key. No flaming. Make them aware of the disadvantages of these wheels in a polite, professional manner. Maybe they will change their mind on their next purchase.

I also noticed this thread is titled "Automobile Enthusiasm: What's it mean to you?" Yet the topic immediately got to wheels. There's a whole lot more to a car than wheels. Let's talk about other aspects of a car that are important to us also!

Haha yeah, I guess maybe I titled the thread a little wrong or something... I didn't really know what I was going to write when I started typing

Justification is huuuuge too, good point. Some people just can't bring themselves to pay more for something when they can get essentially the same thing cheaper elsewhere. It's just like with generic medicine. It achieves basically the same effect, just costs a whole lot less.

[dubtruk36]

3rd World Opinion

Automotive enthusiasm is a worldwide phenomenon. Whether you subscribe to this particular genre or that, you are guaranteed to find like-minded and similarly fanatical individuals in every corner of the globe.

What most of you guys have already mentioned here holds water in some way or another but I'd like to give you the opinion of an individual who was born with high-octane fuel in his veins and will die with his car keys firmly entrenched in his fist (if not behind the wheel whilst throwing sparks around the nurburgring!). More importantly I'm a petrolhead from a certain part of the world where car culture (like everywhere else) spans the breadth of society from the super wealthy (big pimpin' diamond traders etc.) to the poorest of the poor, the likes of which most of you yanks, europeans and australians would possibly never come across. A typical 3rd World example: In Cape Town on the Cape Flats in a shanty town populated by people who get by on less than half a dollar a day lives a 17 year old boy with zero education (no free schooling here) who distributes paper leaflets at a busy intersection so he can most importantly put his baby brother through school but more importantly to him (crazy I know) to get some used goods to add to his burgeoning collection of parts his managed to get for his 510 Datsun. He inherited the car from his late dad at the tender age of 11 and at that time it was already proper f*cked with a bust motor, mismatched trim and all manner of things wrong with the car. This car currently runs 9J wide steel 15's with an sr20de running 48 webers on cut springs with tires sporting more steel than thread as well as a welded up diff and more than enough rust on the body to give the impression that it's been extracted from the bottom of the ocean after 25 years! But it's stanced (in a manner of speaking), it's light therefore it's fast, and when he pulls up next to the rich boys in their 'old-money' Beemers on mega expensive forged wheels et al, he gets just as much street cred.

Nothing depicts the true nature of a genuine Automobile Enthusiast more than their ability to spot creativity, ingenuity and passion in a car and more importantly it's owner no matter what the budget.

Authentic merchandise (BBS, Vortech, Bilstein etc.) are nigh on impossible to source in developing nations such as here in South Africa. Getting hold of decent 2nd hand goods is doubly difficult, but the avenues to purchase these products do exist but at a premium. We have some proper show winners at every level cruising the streets, some big money trailer queens, some old school american metal, some super rare italian stuff like Alfa Romeo and Lancia and the normal majority German and Japanese varieties customised to suit the genre the owner subscribes to and even though the elitist guys do exist, by-and-large the majority of the guys down here wouldn't necessarily pull their noses up at fake wheels any more than at a dumb rich guy who fits a set of chrome 20's to his stock F430 Scuderia.

I'm rambling but as a parting shot...

A head-turner on fake wheels and cut springs with zero engine mods, is still a head-turner. How much more simple could it be? The guy driving that low-cost head-turner may have achieved his objectives in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the budget than most of us would ever admit to and be the happier for it. No-one could ever doubt his enthusiasm and passion and nor should they.

[WhiteStripes]

Word dude, that's a cool post. Didn't know we had members from SA on the boards.

[firelizard]

Cars with knockoffs and cheap parts can look good, and when the overall effect is nice, due is given.

But I take pride in using the best parts I can get, when I can. I've made exceptions, obviously, since the Miata is on Racelands, but I don't like the principle of knockoff wheels, or other knockoff parts. I'd rather have an inexpensive original design, than an inexpensive knockoff. If I like an original design, I will take the steps to get that original part, and that's part of the process. Rare and desirable parts are rare and desirable because they're hard to get. The original paintings are always better than the prints, the counterfeits are just dishonest.

As an enthusiast I to see things being done properly, not half-assed. I expect it of myself, and I expect it of others. When people cut corners and go "done!" it looks bad on the community in my opinion, and the results generally suck.

[cheez80]

i feel like people who get knockoffs are being lazy -- you can pick up a set of cool, original used wheels for the same price if you look hard enough. it's not that difficult.

[dubtruk36]

As an enthusiast I to see things being done properly, not half-assed. I expect it of myself, and I expect it of others. When people cut corners and go "done!" it looks bad on the community in my opinion, and the results generally suck.

I was introduced to this forum through Mike's old snaps on flickr about 2 years ago. I didn't join until very recently purely out of pride as my 3-year-long e36 project plus 6-month-long e30 project are nowhere near completion and my former daily VW Caddy became the property of a good friend for some decent money. My current daily just so happens to be a diesel Ford pickup on a/t tires and sits high enough to clear a 4 year old on a skateboard (stanced, it isn't!)

Sorry,I digress, what I'm alluding to is the fact that, as it is, there are individuals with crazy-ass cars who you and I would never get wind of, and who's owners would possibly never be brave enough to post pics of their builds and their passion for fear of ridicule due to their not having the accepted minimum standard of fit & finish governed by forum peers and community/scene big-whigs...

I was a member of BMW specific forums from the nineties through to very recently and witnessed similar attitudes on similar threads iniate the demise of entire enthusiast communities... Just some food for though; use it, don't use it.

[M.Burroughs]

I honestly could not agree with the OP more. It makes me truly sad to see someone's hard work and time get cut down by someone just because they can't afford all top of the line equipment. I actually wrote a paper very similar to this topic except it had to do with music piracy. The argument that buying reps directly hurts the real company is essentially invalid( I will most likely get crapped on for this but I feel like it needs to be said). The only time it hurts the "real" business is when a person who has the money to purchase the real set chooses to buy the fake set. But for the vast majority (people who cannot afford the reals so they buy the fake) the fake company may earn some profit but the person was not in the same market as the real company to begin with so they lost no money.

Im not trying to say that everyone should buy fakes but if there is really no way in the foreseeable future to obtain funds for real wheels, well then if you want the look I don't think you shouldn't get shat on because you want a particular look and cannot afford the more expensive version of it. sorry for the rant but i wanted to get that off my chest. but to each his own and all that jazz you know the routine

This is completely 100% untrue.

Remember, those replica wheels are stolen intelectual property.

You want an Ansel Adams original print but can't afford it.
Is it fair of me to go and start producing copies for cheap and selling them?
Fuck No.
Ansel would have made copies for cheap if he wanted you to have them.

Knockoff wheels can fuck off.
I don't really care who I offend with this statement. I'm upset any of you support such absolute nonsense. It's theft any way you look at it.

Again, I've got nothing against inexpensive wheels. I've got nothing against a guy who has $200 into his car. A good looking car is a good looking car any way you cut it.

But do us all a favor. Stop supporting knockoff wheels.
If you can't afford the style you want, you simply don't buy it. That's how life is.
I can't afford a ferrari. It doesn't mean I go buy a stolen one with its badges removed for cheap.

[Petis]

^I explained it this way to my brother, who likes Rotas, and doesn't see any issue with buying reps. To make things worse, he thinks people who buy legit wheels only do it for street/e-cred and bragging rights. Needless to say, I was pretty fucking frustrated at this statement,but I kept my cool and said:

"Would you willingly buy parts from someone who you knew, for a fact, had stollen those parts from someone else? I sure as shit hope not." -Me






On another note...... With it said that buying reps hurts the original company, which it does; Is it true that buying used wheels does the same? Think about it. If you are buying used, you aren't putting money in the original companies pocket, are you? Just something to think about.

[nykwhy]

I've got nothing against inexpensive wheels

give me some examples, so we don't feel like we're robbing the culture in the future...

and as for intellectual property, no companies have hands that are completely clean. (unless we're trying to safe face with PR stunts)

in4firelizard.

[Kielan]

On another note...... With it said that buying reps hurts the original company, which it does; Is it true that buying used wheels does the same? Think about it. If you are buying used, you aren't putting money in the original companies pocket, are you? Just something to think about.

Its not though, cause you aren't buy replica, buying a rep means supporting that company, buying used isn't that.

[M.Burroughs]

On another note...... With it said that buying reps hurts the original company, which it does; Is it true that buying used wheels does the same? Think about it. If you are buying used, you aren't putting money in the original companies pocket, are you? Just something to think about.

You're appealing to a different market, the one without the cash to buy brand new wheels.
That leaves used wheels, or new, inexpensive wheels. Simple as that.

give me some examples, so we don't feel like we're robbing the culture in the future...

and as for intellectual property, no companies have hands that are completely clean. (unless we're trying to safe face with PR stunts)

in4firelizard.

There are countless companies producing low cost cast wheels. Hell, even BBS makes the CH. There's also used. Why anyone looks at anything else is beyond me.