The "Most OVER-rated wheel thread"

[Jason@Rotiform]

^I guess I sould have also thrown in the fact that, unlike CCW, who had an enourmous amount of capital when entering the market and bought a ton of parts/material at once, Rotiform didn't have the same ability when entering the market, so their cost on those parts is higher.



Also, I mostly meant that they also outsource their cast wheels, paint work, and plating sevices. None of that is done in house, which drives costs up a good bit..... especially when having to ship them to and from the plater/painter, thenship to the customer.

Thought I should chime in and give my perspective on this subject

Brian and I started this business from nothing about a year and a half ago. I had been in the automotive performance / racing industry for 14 years and Brian was doing IT and design. We were (and still are) in love with cool cars and interesting wheels. We were bored / fed up / unhappy with our current careers and after many long, involved, scary, and exciting conversations we took the dive and gave up our comfy corporate day jobs to follow our dreams and start Rotiform. We sure could have timed it better as the economy was in the shitter and jobs and pensions were disappearing faster than tire tread at a drift event. We just borrowed what we could and put our noses to the grindstone to make it happen. It has been a hell of a ride!

We DO outsource our cast wheels - we have them cast for us by a few different factories overseas. There are very few "wheel companies" that cast their own wheels as the sheer amount of real estate needed dwarfs the neighborhood I live in - not to mention machinery, raw material, casting machines, heat treating ovens, 100's of employees, painting lines, test equipment, etc etc etc. Huge overhead! Casting our own wheels would require multi millions of dollars of investment and necessitate moving out of California. I dont want to do either. It would also dilute our aesthetic. We would have to make what the investors wanted - not what we like. Bottom line... I want to make parts we are proud of. We wont make it if we wouldn't run it on our own cars.

Additionally all of our plating, powdercoating, polishing and machining are done for us locally. We use and partner with local (driving distance) businesses like ourselves that specialize in their crafts. We see or talk to them every day. We support our local economy! Plus, they do it better than we do - You probably would not want to run a wheel that I changed the bolt pattern on, or that Brian polished . We partner with people who are the best in their fields to bring you a better product at a fair price.

^ One of my main points here...... They have multiple designes in their cast line that sell very well, and it would make sense that their next step be, to buy the equipment to cast in house. And get a powdercoat booth for christ sake. That is a relatively innexpensive purchase that will pay for itself in about 1-2yrs.

Whos going to run it? If Brian and I are knee deep in powdercoat dust yelling at eachother in the baking oven you can bet that we wont be coming out with any new designs anytime soon. We do everything. From wheel design, to packing and shipping, to website, to photography, to marketing, to accounting, to cleaning the bathroom, to traveling to shows, to sourcing new manufacturers, to ordering materials and products, to building shop cars. We would rather concentrate on the things that make Rotiform special rather than lower our powdercoating bill in 2 years.

We retail our powdercoating services for $80 per wheel (or $60 per face on 3 piece) including chemically stripping the product before hand and turn it around in 4 days usually. We could do it cheaper if we media blasted instead of chemically stripping but that takes material away and sometimes damages castings or vintage wheels. We would rather do it right then do it cheaply.

^ I understand what you are getting at. I guess I just don't have expensive taste, nor will I ever buy a "government motors" car. Just stating that, if passion was these companies bottom line, I think the market would be better off. IMO....... Slay me....

Passion for wheels and cool cars is what gets me out of bed every morning!

I guess since I'm in the restaurant industry, my views are very different. I break my back in the kitchen and on the books in order to put out the most awesome food I can. And, I try to charge as little as possible, while making a small profit to keep my seats filled.

Think of it this way... What if you had to go kill the cow for your steaks, grow the spinach for your salads, grind the flour for your breads and harvest the sugar for your deserts? Sounds tough right? Even if you could manage it you would certainly have to charge more for it. There are only a few wheel companies that do EVERYTHING in house and even the ones that do everything still outsource. Running a business is an excersize in scale - the bigger you are, the more you need to feed the beast. It is a balancing act that is really really tough for non business owners to understand.

We do things a little differently at Rotiform. We have a ton of cool shit coming out in the next year and things we are working on for the future beyond that. I'd like to personally thank the Stanceworks community for helping make Rotiform what we are today. We could not have done it without your support. Thanks!

Oh, right.

Work Meisters. I don't get the big deal.

[Kielan]

So.... How about them wheels?

This thread has gotten so far OT, my head hurts so much haha. Someone should make an economics chat thread or something in the OT section.

[Petis]

^I see what you are saying, and that is kind of what I do. But, you can't just hike up prices without lots and lots of maket analysis and customer polling. Though some people may think that you are justified in your pricing, there are others that may not, so that territory must be tread cautiously.

And, honestly, I will charge what i believe I can get away with, in a way, but if I operate at a food cost at or below 25%, then I am charging too much and can easily afford to come down.

I want to continue gaining new clientele every day, not just rest on my current clientele to drive sales.

Yeah I get you there. However, by clientele, I actually meant present and future.

I'll use the snowcones as a microcosm: if you could charge $0.50 more per cone, without dissuading existing or future customers, why not do it, y'know?

But then again, that's just me thinking, and I really have only the most rudimentary understanding of business models. I fell into marketing by chance and learned purely by osmosis.

[adamsrotors]

the concept/wording was flawed...it was destine to come to this...

[Petis]

Very true sir....... VERY TRUE









We are so far off the initial topic....... Mah baddd.

[adamsrotors]

again, I see what you're getting at...
but like you said frozen water & syrup or a delicious meal vs. 3-piece forged wheel production are two very different things/products/industries.

[Petis]

you=idealist

I = someone who has been in the restaurant industry for over 11 yrs.

My parents owned a snowcone stand when I was growing up. Our product was the best product around, while also being the lowest priced product. The fact that we were in business for 18yrs before selling for $50k can attest to this business plan working.

[Petis]

Wouldn't you want to charge as much as your clientele will let you?

I want to continue gaining new clientele every day, not just rest on my current clientele to drive sales.

[adamsrotors]

you=idealist

[Petis]

i want to achieve global domination with my food. Meaning, i want every single person who ever eats somewhere other than at their dinner table, to have no better choice than my restaurant, on price, quality, flavor, and atmosphere.

That way, when I take a smaller percentage of a shit load of sales I end up gaining more profit.

[adamsrotors]

on that same note...people often tell me to shoot higher...
get out of the small, grass roots, mom & pop shop vibe and aim for powerslot's image.
I'm too niched, I'm too hand's on...

that's all fine & dandy...and believe me, selling off to a centric is the goal, but I believe getting there...my business model is working just fine.
things like quality, value, and small hands-on attributes of a business are still appreciated by consumers today and is simply our train of thought at AR.
for this, I can appreciate the sell more/make more idea...but its comes with a price is all.
realistically we run a low-medium volume/medium margin company with small business morals and it's working so far...why change?
slowing but surely has always worked...I gain patience each year it seems.

but buying a brand is exactly what will get me there...for my customers and my potential buy out.
marketing...it's a beautiful thing.

[adamsrotors]

I break my back in the kitchen...

exactly...
what if you had half the orders and the same profit end of day?
I love the drive/passion/hustle...but trust me as your career ages...your motivation will too.

also as mentioned above about "luxury" "brand" "elite" you also have a different view here...
your restaurant could and would fetch higher dollar meals at the same volume for the same dish if you had that "presence" in the local food/dining industry. sure ambiance, decor, location, etc. add to it, but creating a desire/want/need/image for the product is ALSO a factory in price...not just quality.

I guess since I'm in the restaurant industry, my views are very different. I break my back in the kitchen and on the books in order to put out the most awesome food I can. And, I try to charge as little as possible, while making a small profit to keep my seats filled.

Wouldn't you want to charge as much as your clientele will let you?