MB W210 size/offset !

[maKe]

Wastegated turbos are easiest and most common setup. VNT needs some electrical wizardy that costs tooooo much to make it work properly.

Stock cam is good. Just get big enough turbo to make it breath to 6k rpm's. Head is your worst enemy on 603. Needs porting, 606 metal headgasket and pretty much everything rebuilt for longevitity.

Not 100% sure but I just remembered that pistons might not work. Valve pockets are different (4valve vs 2 valve). Rods should be bolt-on and you can safely run 35psi boost with those rods. You NEED oil squirters for pistons & pins. Otherwise you can say byebye.

KKD motorsports here makes some ultra hyper quality manifolds, flanges etc. for benzes. 603 exhaust manifold is around ~$800

[conski]

Hahah.

I'm not a complete diesel wizard, but I have been hanging out with few friends who have some nice +400whp smoke cannons.

Trannys are usually 722 -series autos that have been beefed up by few local benz tuning shops. Some likes manual boxes and you can pretty much use BMW getrag or ZF box with some minor fabrication done. 262 Getrag is straight bolt-on box.

We trust Holset HX-series turbos mostly. Ranging from HX30 to big ass HX55 / pro52. New player on the scene is master power. They are propably best bang for buck turbos you can buy today. Garrett is also used widely, mostly some old school GT32 and GT37 and some VNT variants.

All motors we use are mostly bone stock, but they have to be turbo version not n/a. Naturally aspirated pistons and rods are too weak for big power levels, and there usually ain't piston oil squirters on n/a motors. Healthy bone stock OM606 is good for over 550whp. OM605 is also good for 450whp, but that green car above is "fully built" with custom finnish made cams, H-profile rods etc.

Injection pump is still a bit mystery to me, but all I know is that you HAVE to use mechanical pump from OM603. It needs to be built realllllly heavily or otherwise you are stuck with close to stock power levels even with biggest turbo you can fit in your engine bay.

Myna-Diesel here builts all superturbo pumps and they are not cheap...
Ship your existing 603 pump + $1500 and you get pump with 7mm or 8mm elements + all supporting mods that needs to be done. 7mm pump is good for ~550whp and 8mm is easily over 650whp. You adjust your basic fueling mechanically and under boost there is a circuit in pump that gives more fuel when boost starts rising. It's usually operated by wastegate actuator that moves a rod that is connected on pump. Really hard to explain because of my poor english, but it's kinda like pneumatic works.






Perfect starter build. Just get a pump from myna and build your own exhaust manifold, exhaust, ic piping etc. and get ready for some 400whp action + tons of torque. A bit rough sounding motor, but pretty much bullet proof if not pushed above those power levels.

You can put 606 turbo pistons and rods for even more power. Head is a weak link although... metal headgasket is highly recommend for over 35psi boost levels.

Have been waiting to hear this info all day hahaha

I read up on a guy who can tune the inline pump and install 7.5mm elements for cheaper than Myna. So i will definitely look him up when it comes to doing that work. Other than that thanks for all of the info, some superb stuff here! I would love to get a 5 speed behind the om603 but have to figure out who in the U.S. can beef it up for me. Was planning on building/fabbing most of my own parts like the manifold, exhaust and especially the intercooler. Love the sound of the motors too, sounds like an F-250 haha.

To get 606 pistons and rods in would the block need to be machined at all or do they have the same bore and stroke?

Would a cam regrind to something more aggressive be necessary at all?

Do you use mechanical wastegates or the VNT's? Mechanical seems easier to deal with.

I understand what you are trying to say about the inline pump applying more fuel under boost too.

Thanks again!

[maKe]

you guys are my heros. I'm not to familiar with diesels or anything, I mostly stuck to gas but this makes me want to go buy a diesel to add to my shop. I have sooo many questions but will try not to bog you down right now but anything in the future I wanna know about diesel performance I am definitely coming to you hahah

Are you using stock transmissions with these big power engines or are there any modifications?

What turbos are you guys using?

Does the internals need any modifications?

How are you adjusting fuel and compensating for additional boost?

Very eager to hear what you have to say...Thanks!

Hahah.

I'm not a complete diesel wizard, but I have been hanging out with few friends who have some nice +400whp smoke cannons.

Trannys are usually 722 -series autos that have been beefed up by few local benz tuning shops. Some likes manual boxes and you can pretty much use BMW getrag or ZF box with some minor fabrication done. 262 Getrag is straight bolt-on box.

We trust Holset HX-series turbos mostly. Ranging from HX30 to big ass HX55 / pro52. New player on the scene is master power. They are propably best bang for buck turbos you can buy today. Garrett is also used widely, mostly some old school GT32 and GT37 and some VNT variants.

All motors we use are mostly bone stock, but they have to be turbo version not n/a. Naturally aspirated pistons and rods are too weak for big power levels, and there usually ain't piston oil squirters on n/a motors. Healthy bone stock OM606 is good for over 550whp. OM605 is also good for 450whp, but that green car above is "fully built" with custom finnish made cams, H-profile rods etc.

Injection pump is still a bit mystery to me, but all I know is that you HAVE to use mechanical pump from OM603. It needs to be built realllllly heavily or otherwise you are stuck with close to stock power levels even with biggest turbo you can fit in your engine bay.

Myna-Diesel here builts all superturbo pumps and they are not cheap...
Ship your existing 603 pump + $1500 and you get pump with 7mm or 8mm elements + all supporting mods that needs to be done. 7mm pump is good for ~550whp and 8mm is easily over 650whp. You adjust your basic fueling mechanically and under boost there is a circuit in pump that gives more fuel when boost starts rising. It's usually operated by wastegate actuator that moves a rod that is connected on pump. Really hard to explain because of my poor english, but it's kinda like pneumatic works.

I really wanna find a w123 300td as my next performance project, I think it could be pretty fun. How is the om603 for tuning though?

Perfect starter build. Just get a pump from myna and build your own exhaust manifold, exhaust, ic piping etc. and get ready for some 400whp action + tons of torque. A bit rough sounding motor, but pretty much bullet proof if not pushed above those power levels.

You can put 606 turbo pistons and rods for even more power. Head is a weak link although... metal headgasket is highly recommend for over 35psi boost levels.

[conski]

For me, when I was looking for my W210, it was between a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel sedan (USA only gets sedan diesel) and my current 2001 E320 wagon, I ended up going with the wagon since it was a very rare car (tectite color and equipped with every single factory equipment option available for a W210) and was in better condition, interior/exterior. Also I don't it enough to care about fuel economy and there is very little tuner support for W210 diesel modifications in the USA to make it go fast. Also diesel cars are very expensive in the US. For reference the 1999 diesel E300 had 40.000 more miles and 2 year older and still $4 more expensive then my wagon.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely wish that my wagon was equipped with OM606A instead of the M112, I would ever do a swap, honetly, but here in California we cannot legally swap an engine that is older then the car its being swapped into, only the other way around. Hey, but 01-02 E55 swap is still very possible! I am seriously considering it, I'm currently looking for a donor car.

Your wagon is pretty sweet, especially the rarity of it. An e55 swap would make it down right gnarly, nothing would even compare.

I have spent the morning reading up on diesel tuning on the peach parts forum and the super turbo diesel forum. Some really interesting stuff. I really wanna find a w123 300td as my next performance project, I think it could be pretty fun. How is the om603 for tuning though?

[wagonist]

For me, when I was looking for my W210, it was between a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel sedan (USA only gets sedan diesel) and my current 2001 E320 wagon, I ended up going with the wagon since it was a very rare car (tectite color and equipped with every single factory equipment option available for a W210) and was in better condition, interior/exterior. Also I don't it enough to care about fuel economy and there is very little tuner support for W210 diesel modifications in the USA to make it go fast. Also diesel cars are very expensive in the US. For reference the 1999 diesel E300 had 40.000 more miles and 2 year older and still $4 more expensive then my wagon.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely wish that my wagon was equipped with OM606A instead of the M112, I would ever do a swap, honetly, but here in California we cannot legally swap an engine that is older then the car its being swapped into, only the other way around. Hey, but 01-02 E55 swap is still very possible! I am seriously considering it, I'm currently looking for a donor car.

[conski]

You asked for it.



Cheap Ol' OM603: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gJr...eature=related






Sick OM605 in 200d, 549whp/ 521ft-lbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-dO...layer_embedded







King of the hill, OM606 3l 24v straight six. In different variations, but latest trend is 2x turbo and 1x roots supercharger in this W123 wagon. Supposed to have around ~700whp and 740 ft-lbs:

Youtube: Motor,
Youtube: Car itself




We also like to put benz motors in everything.
Heres E30 with OM606, obviously with 1x turbo and 1x eaton supercharger. 600whp / 663ft-lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDK3K...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRmyJ...eature=related

Small burnout: http://teamlmd.1g.fi/kuvat/e30+330Cd/Burnis+vol.1+.mp4


Some misc diesel benzes here all in one clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-soNJ8D8Y


Finally tip of the iceberg, drift w123 wagon! Built in Finland, driven by finn
Yeah you guessed it....OM606 + 1x turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24afjVqm2Uw




Thats how we roll here. Diesel ftw.

you guys are my heros. I'm not to familiar with diesels or anything, I mostly stuck to gas but this makes me want to go buy a diesel to add to my shop. I have sooo many questions but will try not to bog you down right now but anything in the future I wanna know about diesel performance I am definitely coming to you hahah

Are you using stock transmissions with these big power engines or are there any modifications?

What turbos are you guys using?

Does the internals need any modifications?

How are you adjusting fuel and compensating for additional boost?

Very eager to hear what you have to say...Thanks!

[maKe]

You asked for it.



Cheap Ol' OM603: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gJr...eature=related






Sick OM605 in 200d, 549whp/ 521ft-lbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-dO...layer_embedded







King of the hill, OM606 3l 24v straight six. In different variations, but latest trend is 2x turbo and 1x roots supercharger in this W123 wagon. Supposed to have around ~700whp and 740 ft-lbs:

Youtube: Motor,
Youtube: Car itself




We also like to put benz motors in everything.
Heres E30 with OM606, obviously with 1x turbo and 1x eaton supercharger. 600whp / 663ft-lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDK3K...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRmyJ...eature=related

Small burnout: http://teamlmd.1g.fi/kuvat/e30+330Cd/Burnis+vol.1+.mp4


Some misc diesel benzes here all in one clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-soNJ8D8Y


Finally tip of the iceberg, drift w123 wagon! Built in Finland, driven by finn
Yeah you guessed it....OM606 + 1x turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24afjVqm2Uw




Thats how we roll here. Diesel ftw.

[conski]

Benz without diesel motor ain't a Benz.

Luckily I live in Finland where we have daily driven 500-600whp diesel mercs. Bone stock OM606 + built pump with 7mm or 8mm elements and big ass turbo. OM603 and OM605 are also damn good motors for over 400whp.

I'm looking to get healthy 250-280whp / +500Nm trq out of my OM602. Holset HX35 and modded pump should do the trick.

Ever heard of 9 second diesel w124? We have one.

Holy shit! Those engines are definitely more bullet proof then the m103/m104's.

I'd love to see some pics of these engine bays and dyno graphs.

You guys over in europe are leagues ahead of us in the U.S. when it comes to turbocharging the mercedes as far as pushing the limits goes lol

[maKe]

Oh okay my bad I misread that lol

Have you thought about a centrifugal supercharger?

It would all be somewhat bolt on and fairly easy. You have the obd 2 ecu, right?

If you want I could get together a parts list for you.

You could safely run an intercooled system under 8 or 9psi on stock internals and never have an issue with it. Would be good for at least 75-100hp at the minimum

Benz without diesel motor ain't a Benz.

Luckily I live in Finland where we have daily driven 500-600whp diesel mercs. Bone stock OM606 + built pump with 7mm or 8mm elements and big ass turbo. OM603 and OM605 are also damn good motors for over 400whp.

I'm looking to get healthy 250-280whp / +500Nm trq out of my OM602. Holset HX35 and modded pump should do the trick.

Ever heard of 9 second diesel w124? We have one.

[conski]

I was referring to wheels and nothing else, I have a E320 and really nothing out there as far as performance so I just leave it well maintained stock form.

But I agree, forged machine shop looking wheels do tend to be the lightest and thus resulting in extra perfomance over my heavy cast and spun OZ's

Oh okay my bad I misread that lol

Have you thought about a centrifugal supercharger?

It would all be somewhat bolt on and fairly easy. You have the obd 2 ecu, right?

If you want I could get together a parts list for you.

You could safely run an intercooled system under 8 or 9psi on stock internals and never have an issue with it. Would be good for at least 75-100hp at the minimum

[wagonist]

I was referring to wheels and nothing else, I have a E320 and really nothing out there as far as performance so I just leave it well maintained stock form.

But I agree, forged machine shop looking wheels do tend to be the lightest and thus resulting in extra perfomance over my heavy cast and spun OZ's

[conski]

the US Mercedes tuner scene is not my style at all, they are into the same type of boring 3 peice wheels from iForged, JLine, DPE, HRE, etc... that all look like something a student could have made in CNC school, no style and very conservative fitment, so I only go to benzworld for information on fixing my car since it is a great resource for that, but for all other advice as far as fitment and research I go to w210-forum.de Its all in German, which I happen to speak, but if you don't you can alway use translate.google.com

I must say I beg to differ on your opinion of the US Mercedes tuner scene, though I can only speak on behalf of myself I think most are more concerned with performance than stance. The stance is usually perfected after the motor is runnning to its full potential. As far as the rims go, I don't have much experience with the w210's because I am a w124 era guy but if you check on peachparts.com you might find some valuable info.


Good luck and sweet ride! Love the wagons!

[wagonist]

the US Mercedes tuner scene is not my style at all, they are into the same type of boring 3 peice wheels from iForged, JLine, DPE, HRE, etc... that all look like something a student could have made in CNC school, no style and very conservative fitment, so I only go to benzworld for information on fixing my car since it is a great resource for that, but for all other advice as far as fitment and research I go to w210-forum.de Its all in German, which I happen to speak, but if you don't you can alway use translate.google.com

[maKe]

Those pictures tell more than 1000 words. Thanks a ton! I have been looking for few days pics of W210's with huge offset wheels, but all I come up is those benzworld etc. places where you can't even lower your car without mocking and ******.

Now I need to talk more with Claus and hopefully I'll get Futuras from him. $3000 for a set of used wheels seems pretty much...but I guess they are worth it.

[wagonist]

another reference, 9,5 x18 offset 25; 11x18 ET35. 225/40 and 265/35

so as you can see, 11j18 is possible with a maximum et of approx. +35mm, anything lower would require fender pulling..