MB W210 size/offset !

[conski]

You asked for it.



Cheap Ol' OM603: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9gJr...eature=related






Sick OM605 in 200d, 549whp/ 521ft-lbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-dO...layer_embedded







King of the hill, OM606 3l 24v straight six. In different variations, but latest trend is 2x turbo and 1x roots supercharger in this W123 wagon. Supposed to have around ~700whp and 740 ft-lbs:

Youtube: Motor,
Youtube: Car itself




We also like to put benz motors in everything.
Heres E30 with OM606, obviously with 1x turbo and 1x eaton supercharger. 600whp / 663ft-lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDK3K...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRmyJ...eature=related

Small burnout: http://teamlmd.1g.fi/kuvat/e30+330Cd/Burnis+vol.1+.mp4


Some misc diesel benzes here all in one clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep-soNJ8D8Y


Finally tip of the iceberg, drift w123 wagon! Built in Finland, driven by finn
Yeah you guessed it....OM606 + 1x turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24afjVqm2Uw




Thats how we roll here. Diesel ftw.

you guys are my heros. I'm not to familiar with diesels or anything, I mostly stuck to gas but this makes me want to go buy a diesel to add to my shop. I have sooo many questions but will try not to bog you down right now but anything in the future I wanna know about diesel performance I am definitely coming to you hahah

Are you using stock transmissions with these big power engines or are there any modifications?

What turbos are you guys using?

Does the internals need any modifications?

How are you adjusting fuel and compensating for additional boost?

Very eager to hear what you have to say...Thanks!

[wagonist]

For me, when I was looking for my W210, it was between a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel sedan (USA only gets sedan diesel) and my current 2001 E320 wagon, I ended up going with the wagon since it was a very rare car (tectite color and equipped with every single factory equipment option available for a W210) and was in better condition, interior/exterior. Also I don't it enough to care about fuel economy and there is very little tuner support for W210 diesel modifications in the USA to make it go fast. Also diesel cars are very expensive in the US. For reference the 1999 diesel E300 had 40.000 more miles and 2 year older and still $4 more expensive then my wagon.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely wish that my wagon was equipped with OM606A instead of the M112, I would ever do a swap, honetly, but here in California we cannot legally swap an engine that is older then the car its being swapped into, only the other way around. Hey, but 01-02 E55 swap is still very possible! I am seriously considering it, I'm currently looking for a donor car.

[conski]

For me, when I was looking for my W210, it was between a 1999 E300 Turbodiesel sedan (USA only gets sedan diesel) and my current 2001 E320 wagon, I ended up going with the wagon since it was a very rare car (tectite color and equipped with every single factory equipment option available for a W210) and was in better condition, interior/exterior. Also I don't it enough to care about fuel economy and there is very little tuner support for W210 diesel modifications in the USA to make it go fast. Also diesel cars are very expensive in the US. For reference the 1999 diesel E300 had 40.000 more miles and 2 year older and still $4 more expensive then my wagon.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely wish that my wagon was equipped with OM606A instead of the M112, I would ever do a swap, honetly, but here in California we cannot legally swap an engine that is older then the car its being swapped into, only the other way around. Hey, but 01-02 E55 swap is still very possible! I am seriously considering it, I'm currently looking for a donor car.

Your wagon is pretty sweet, especially the rarity of it. An e55 swap would make it down right gnarly, nothing would even compare.

I have spent the morning reading up on diesel tuning on the peach parts forum and the super turbo diesel forum. Some really interesting stuff. I really wanna find a w123 300td as my next performance project, I think it could be pretty fun. How is the om603 for tuning though?

[maKe]

you guys are my heros. I'm not to familiar with diesels or anything, I mostly stuck to gas but this makes me want to go buy a diesel to add to my shop. I have sooo many questions but will try not to bog you down right now but anything in the future I wanna know about diesel performance I am definitely coming to you hahah

Are you using stock transmissions with these big power engines or are there any modifications?

What turbos are you guys using?

Does the internals need any modifications?

How are you adjusting fuel and compensating for additional boost?

Very eager to hear what you have to say...Thanks!

Hahah.

I'm not a complete diesel wizard, but I have been hanging out with few friends who have some nice +400whp smoke cannons.

Trannys are usually 722 -series autos that have been beefed up by few local benz tuning shops. Some likes manual boxes and you can pretty much use BMW getrag or ZF box with some minor fabrication done. 262 Getrag is straight bolt-on box.

We trust Holset HX-series turbos mostly. Ranging from HX30 to big ass HX55 / pro52. New player on the scene is master power. They are propably best bang for buck turbos you can buy today. Garrett is also used widely, mostly some old school GT32 and GT37 and some VNT variants.

All motors we use are mostly bone stock, but they have to be turbo version not n/a. Naturally aspirated pistons and rods are too weak for big power levels, and there usually ain't piston oil squirters on n/a motors. Healthy bone stock OM606 is good for over 550whp. OM605 is also good for 450whp, but that green car above is "fully built" with custom finnish made cams, H-profile rods etc.

Injection pump is still a bit mystery to me, but all I know is that you HAVE to use mechanical pump from OM603. It needs to be built realllllly heavily or otherwise you are stuck with close to stock power levels even with biggest turbo you can fit in your engine bay.

Myna-Diesel here builts all superturbo pumps and they are not cheap...
Ship your existing 603 pump + $1500 and you get pump with 7mm or 8mm elements + all supporting mods that needs to be done. 7mm pump is good for ~550whp and 8mm is easily over 650whp. You adjust your basic fueling mechanically and under boost there is a circuit in pump that gives more fuel when boost starts rising. It's usually operated by wastegate actuator that moves a rod that is connected on pump. Really hard to explain because of my poor english, but it's kinda like pneumatic works.

I really wanna find a w123 300td as my next performance project, I think it could be pretty fun. How is the om603 for tuning though?

Perfect starter build. Just get a pump from myna and build your own exhaust manifold, exhaust, ic piping etc. and get ready for some 400whp action + tons of torque. A bit rough sounding motor, but pretty much bullet proof if not pushed above those power levels.

You can put 606 turbo pistons and rods for even more power. Head is a weak link although... metal headgasket is highly recommend for over 35psi boost levels.

[conski]

Hahah.

I'm not a complete diesel wizard, but I have been hanging out with few friends who have some nice +400whp smoke cannons.

Trannys are usually 722 -series autos that have been beefed up by few local benz tuning shops. Some likes manual boxes and you can pretty much use BMW getrag or ZF box with some minor fabrication done. 262 Getrag is straight bolt-on box.

We trust Holset HX-series turbos mostly. Ranging from HX30 to big ass HX55 / pro52. New player on the scene is master power. They are propably best bang for buck turbos you can buy today. Garrett is also used widely, mostly some old school GT32 and GT37 and some VNT variants.

All motors we use are mostly bone stock, but they have to be turbo version not n/a. Naturally aspirated pistons and rods are too weak for big power levels, and there usually ain't piston oil squirters on n/a motors. Healthy bone stock OM606 is good for over 550whp. OM605 is also good for 450whp, but that green car above is "fully built" with custom finnish made cams, H-profile rods etc.

Injection pump is still a bit mystery to me, but all I know is that you HAVE to use mechanical pump from OM603. It needs to be built realllllly heavily or otherwise you are stuck with close to stock power levels even with biggest turbo you can fit in your engine bay.

Myna-Diesel here builts all superturbo pumps and they are not cheap...
Ship your existing 603 pump + $1500 and you get pump with 7mm or 8mm elements + all supporting mods that needs to be done. 7mm pump is good for ~550whp and 8mm is easily over 650whp. You adjust your basic fueling mechanically and under boost there is a circuit in pump that gives more fuel when boost starts rising. It's usually operated by wastegate actuator that moves a rod that is connected on pump. Really hard to explain because of my poor english, but it's kinda like pneumatic works.






Perfect starter build. Just get a pump from myna and build your own exhaust manifold, exhaust, ic piping etc. and get ready for some 400whp action + tons of torque. A bit rough sounding motor, but pretty much bullet proof if not pushed above those power levels.

You can put 606 turbo pistons and rods for even more power. Head is a weak link although... metal headgasket is highly recommend for over 35psi boost levels.

Have been waiting to hear this info all day hahaha

I read up on a guy who can tune the inline pump and install 7.5mm elements for cheaper than Myna. So i will definitely look him up when it comes to doing that work. Other than that thanks for all of the info, some superb stuff here! I would love to get a 5 speed behind the om603 but have to figure out who in the U.S. can beef it up for me. Was planning on building/fabbing most of my own parts like the manifold, exhaust and especially the intercooler. Love the sound of the motors too, sounds like an F-250 haha.

To get 606 pistons and rods in would the block need to be machined at all or do they have the same bore and stroke?

Would a cam regrind to something more aggressive be necessary at all?

Do you use mechanical wastegates or the VNT's? Mechanical seems easier to deal with.

I understand what you are trying to say about the inline pump applying more fuel under boost too.

Thanks again!

[maKe]

Wastegated turbos are easiest and most common setup. VNT needs some electrical wizardy that costs tooooo much to make it work properly.

Stock cam is good. Just get big enough turbo to make it breath to 6k rpm's. Head is your worst enemy on 603. Needs porting, 606 metal headgasket and pretty much everything rebuilt for longevitity.

Not 100% sure but I just remembered that pistons might not work. Valve pockets are different (4valve vs 2 valve). Rods should be bolt-on and you can safely run 35psi boost with those rods. You NEED oil squirters for pistons & pins. Otherwise you can say byebye.

KKD motorsports here makes some ultra hyper quality manifolds, flanges etc. for benzes. 603 exhaust manifold is around ~$800

[conski]

Wastegated turbos are easiest and most common setup. VNT needs some electrical wizardy that costs tooooo much to make it work properly.

Stock cam is good. Just get big enough turbo to make it breath to 6k rpm's. Head is your worst enemy on 603. Needs porting, 606 metal headgasket and pretty much everything rebuilt for longevitity.

Not 100% sure but I just remembered that pistons might not work. Valve pockets are different (4valve vs 2 valve). Rods should be bolt-on and you can safely run 35psi boost with those rods. You NEED oil squirters for pistons & pins. Otherwise you can say byebye.

KKD motorsports here makes some ultra hyper quality manifolds, flanges etc. for benzes. 603 exhaust manifold is around ~$800

No need to make things more complicated, will be going with a wastegated turbo on that note lol

Was already planning on porting and lapping the valves. I am assuming the head is only a 12 valve so it shouldn't be too bad to rebuild.
How can you use a 606 metal headgasket, wouldn't it be too big since it is for a dohc?

Rods would be a good upgrade if I decided to do a full rebuild.

That seems like a good deal on a manifold but I wanna try my hand at making one first, love diy stuff. Greater sense of pride in the end product

[maKe]

606 HG is dead bolt-on after few drilled holes. You know what to drill when you compare 603 and 606 gaskets side by side. VHT copper spray sprayed on all layers "should" make it even more durable. It's proven to hold 50psi so it should be enough for most.

HX40 super is good turbo for 603. Twin scroll housing and dual wastegate setup makes that bad boy to spool really nicely. HX's need +20psi to work efficiently and can flow air to around 50-60psi. Just be extremely careful with your backpressures on diesel, and watch EGT's.

[conski]

606 HG is dead bolt-on after few drilled holes. You know what to drill when you compare 603 and 606 gaskets side by side. VHT copper spray sprayed on all layers "should" make it even more durable. It's proven to hold 50psi so it should be enough for most.

HX40 super is good turbo for 603. Twin scroll housing and dual wastegate setup makes that bad boy to spool really nicely. HX's need +20psi to work efficiently and can flow air to around 50-60psi. Just be extremely careful with your backpressures on diesel, and watch EGT's.

Every response I get makes me even more stoked on this project! haha

Thanks for all the info man, I really appreciate it. Once I am able to find a good 300td and start building it up I will keep you posted for sure.

[P78]

damn i sold my old diesel benz too soon..

if i knew i would have made it fast instead of painstackinly sluggish slow

[maKe]

^
No, they are fastest.


Nothing beats the feeling when you roll some thick coal on tailgaters.


But back on topic. I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and get 9x18 / 10x18 Futuras from Claus.
Got so nice quote on price so why not. Now I need teh coilovers and some camber adjustment rods for rear end.

[conski]

^
No, they are fastest.


Nothing beats the feeling when you roll some thick coal on tailgaters.


But back on topic. I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and get 9x18 / 10x18 Futuras from Claus.
Got so nice quote on price so why not. Now I need teh coilovers and some camber adjustment rods for rear end.

Good choice, Futuras are so classic looking. Even better in those sizes lol

[NELSON09]

I just bought clean 290td W210 that came with ugly 18" Oxigin 2pc looker wheels.

Contacted Claus from Felgen-Garage and asked for a set of 18" Futuras. He offered me 9x18 / 10x18 combo with offset range of ET22, ET26, ET35, ET38

I'm going to run KW variant 2 coilovers so what ET I should go for? Fender rolling is possible, and I'm looking for really flush fitment. I have no idea are those wheels gonna clear brakes & other suspension parts, so if you benzo gurus could chime in!

19x8.5 beginning et 35 (25mm spacing)
19x9.5 beginning et 32 (20mm spacing)
All four cornes have been rolled flat.
Good choice in coil overs, those are the only ones that'll get you low.

[maKe]

Aaaarghh, sh*t things have happened and I had to bury the wheel idea for a while.

But now I think I found my dream set of Futuras with right size and not bad price.

Front 9x18 et 25
Rear 10.5x18 et 17

Front seems like a perfect match, but how about rear? I can't physically test the wheels so it's a blind purchase. I'm pretty sure rear needs rolling, but still...? If it's not enough it needs some huge ass stretch or negative camber.

[wagonist]

no huge ass stretch needed, look at my photo below, 225 in front with et20 and 255 in rear with et 19. I can toss a 5mm spacer in the front if I really wanted and still wouldn't rub.