The Roundie - 1973 BMW 2002

[bwwaaaa]

Having gone the two routes you describe (full resto and mods/resto on the go), I fully understand and support your decision. Usable not perfect car is far more enjoyable than what you hilariously called an art piece of jack stands.

Great to see you are back at it, also - do mount that bias valve higher in the bay, even only for servicing and usability purposes.

Looks like we may be back to jack stand art, but more on that later. In regards to the bias valve, you’re right it probably does need to site higher. I’m also debating putting it in the cabin so I can actually change it while driving. Though it shouldn’t need to be changed much after it’s set, it’d be nice not to have to jump out to make small adjustments.

ANY progress is better than letting it sit there and mock you.

I'm planning on doing the same master cyl for my bavaria.

Are you pairing it with stock brakes, or doing a bigger setup? Curious to see how it works for others, as I won’t be driving on this setup for a while.

I can't believe that 2002 was nearly 18 years ago and this car is 18 years old. Unfortunately, now it requires special car insurance for older cars and you can learn more about it following this link. In my opinion, it is high time to learn this issue.

This spam bot is the big dumb.

[duct-tape]

ANY progress is better than letting it sit there and mock you.

I'm planning on doing the same master cyl for my bavaria.

[gnmzl]

Having gone the two routes you describe (full resto and mods/resto on the go), I fully understand and support your decision. Usable not perfect car is far more enjoyable than what you hilariously called an art piece of jack stands.

Great to see you are back at it, also - do mount that bias valve higher in the bay, even only for servicing and usability purposes.

[bwwaaaa]

That has to be, by far, the weirdest engine mount I've seen to date

'60s German engineering made for a lot of... interesting solutions. This being one of them. Why make an arm down to the subframe when you can make the subframe come up to the engine?

Why can't I find things like this by accident?

This mostly came about due to my crippling Instagram addiction. Spend enough time on any platform and you'll catch these things.

Back To It

So I never want to use a build thread to be a venue for venting, but indulge me for a second because I think we can all relate. The 2002 was gone for 8 months, in which time a lot changed for the car and my personal life. After getting it back, there has basically been a constant internal debate on what my next steps should be. The long and short of it is, I changed jobs and went from being hilariously over worked to being underwater 24/7. The result? I haven't touched the 2002 until this weekend. What little free time I do have has gone into the M3.

Taking stock of the car, it becomes pretty evident that "just repainting" isn't really an option, and the sheer amount of sheet metal that needs to be replaced is alarming. I want to emphasize that 1. I will get around to restoring the shell perfectly some day, and 2. I will never sell this car, but in the short term I need to prioritize a little bit. A running ratty car serves my needs better right now than a pretty shell. After spending an evening in my friends garage test fitting wheels that were way too big on his super ratty 912, I came to the conclusion that I really just need to get this car back on the road for now. When life has calmed down a little bit, I can revisit restoring the shell properly.

So first thing is first, I took off the hood and made a list. Brakes are high on the list right now, and a problem area. The Volvo calipers I had modified a while back still do not fit correctly. I don't know if they were modified incorrectly, or if they still need to be shimmed, but either way I was very unimpressed. Rather than fussing with these anymore, I'm just going to go with the Wilwood big brake kit for 2002s. The bonus is this pairs perfectly with the booster delete I purchased nearly 6 months ago. So I got to work mocking that up.

Rod to MC fouls on brake pedal lever

Chase Bays claims that this part fits a 2002, but they neglect to mention some chopping is necessary. The provided bolts are way too long, and the rod coming from the master cylinder also needs to be shortened. You can see above that it fouls against the brake pedal arm. It is worth noting that to get this to line up with the arm I had to bottom out the bracket on the MC, which included removing the retaining nut.

This is about how much I thought would need to come off. We ended up going a little further since I new the black bracket there would need to be bottomed out anyways.

Out of focus but there is the cut materials. The bolts were cut two lengths, the slightly longer ones will go on the bottom to clear the two brackets the bolt goes through.

And mocked up. A quick test pump of the brake pedal shows that it does work alright. It doesn't bind or act odd in anyway. Another disappointing discovery is how my bias valve will have to be mounted. Chase Bays photos show it mounting neatly on the MC itself. However in the 2002 bay, at least on the stock bracket, that basically puts one of the outlets against the fender sheet metal. Rather than try to force that to work, I think it will just be easier to mount it to the side. I used the provided hard line for mock up, but I'm tempted to make a new one to bring the bias valve up higher in the engine bay. I will be fiddling with the brake bias to dial it in, and reaching down there may become difficult when everything is back in the engine bay. TBD though.

Now that I know this works, I will be spending some time pulling the harness back into the cabin and removing all the remaining brackets and pieces. The front core support will go off to powdercoat, and I'll have the engine bay painted just to make it fresh. Not sure what I'm going to do about the rotted out nose panel yet, probably leave it for now and understand the under the radiator will look like shit for a bit.

It feels good to have made some progress again. I'm bummed to be putting off the full restoration, but I think being realistic about my time and abilities with this car is critical right now. It'll be the difference between enjoying it, and it being a perpetual art piece of jack stands. Once things settle down and I have more time to commit to the car, then I can easily drop the subframes, put it on a cart and bring the shell back to 100%.

[naughtyaudi]

Why can't I find things like this by accident?

[Fruttolo]

That has to be, by far, the weirdest engine mount I've seen to date

[bwwaaaa]

What Was Done

I guess now is a good opportunity to show some of the detail on what was completed.

The inlet and outlets were chopped off a junk Mishimoto radiator and grafted on to mine. Now this radiator can accept E30 hoses. This does leave some awkward questions about how the hell the hoses will fit. As is the hoses weren’t really lining up with the crossover, these stick out a great deal more. So I’m not super pumped about that.

Stand offs from the core support were made to mount the radiator to. I think I may need to add some bushing in this setup, as I’m worried the NVH from the poly engine and trans mounts may cause cracking.

This photo is probably hard to figure out, but you’re looking at the driver’s side engine mount. It has been reinforced, but I think it was too little too late. I was told that the subframe was already cracked. Although he said he welded back together, I’m not sure I trust this subframe anymore. I’m debating searching for a non-cracked one and just getting that one completely reinforced and boxed in.

The hood is also now hinged off of the core support. This is kind of a big deal I suppose, as I haven’t seen other builds do this. There are two beams up front that act as the support for the hood. Mine were cracked off at the factory welds, and frankly the weight of the hood was starting to buckle them down. Rather than try to preserve or restore those hinges, I asked if we could just build stand offs from the core support and hinge the hood off of that.

I guess a word for those concerned. I don’t think this design would hold up long term with the stock hood. The 2002 steel hood is incredibly heavy, and on these mounts the hood can’t stand up all the way. I have always intended, and it is now becoming closer to a reality, to find a carbon fiber hood for this car. One big complaint about the M20 swap is the weight that is added up front. Yeah, fair but it isn’t that much and the gains are pretty substantial. However I always thought that if I could source a carbon fiber hood, it would more than offset the weight added. My biggest rule was no hood pins. Fortunately, if the rumor mill is correct, there is a hood in development that will use stock mounting hardware. So I had this designed with that in mind. This can’t hold the stock hood weight very well, and almost surely would break eventually. But a carbon fiber hood using stock hardware should be no big deal.

And yes, I’ll have the hood painted, I’m not leaving exposed carbon on this car.

I’ve been sick this week, of course, so I haven’t had a chance to start messing with the brakes. But that’s next on my list.

[Fruttolo]

There is a way to get around not having space in front/back of the car if you have some around the sides and over. Get a fabricator to roll 2 circles of 1.5" tube in which you can fit the body, then attach them to it at the subframe mounts so they fit centered to the wheel wells, then build 2 bases with 2 rollers those circles cann roll on. Just tube bender rollers may do and be readily available. I may need to sketch something to explain more but this is the way I intended to build mine before discovering I could fit a standard rotisserie in my garage

[bwwaaaa]

Glad to see the car is back home again. How much of the underside do you plan on working on? I would say if you can swing it size wise, I would try and make a rotisserie for the car. using the frame horn ends is what I have seen most of the times before. Some of those were made with plywood on a simple angle to get the car to its one side. Either way just make sure whatever you design is easy enough to work around with getting a jack under the car to be able to remove it when needed.

I need to route brake and fuel lines, which I suppose I should really just do before putting the body on the cart. Beyond that I was hoping to get the underside blasted as well to exposed anymore rust that needs to be handled. I’d love to do a rotisserie but I simply don’t have the space in my garage. If I attach it at the frame horns, it adds another 6 feet of length that I don’t have. If I build a cage around it, I’d have to rotate the car in place somehow. It’s not an ideal situation unfortunately. That’s why a static cart was my leading option, it may not be as handy but I would be able to fit it in my garage space.

So glad is back!
What is that 20% you need to finish?

Pretty much all transmission tunnel related. I have a chassis mount shifter I need to figure out how to mount, and I suspect I will be redoing the entire trans tunnel as well. The current one is a little messed up.

That's what I did minus the frame that connected them both. Just made sure the tube between mounting point and caster wheel was thick and sturdy. In the end the wheels failed, but that's because I cheaped out. One thing to point out is I used old crossmembers, not sure how available are those for '02s
But you can always get creative with some thick metal and some 2x4s and mimic the stock crossmembers.
Heightwise I went about 14 inches or so of tube plus the wheels, which gave me enough clearance to crawl under the car and be able to use my hands without awkward positions. My end result looked like this.

Hope this helps you.
Very happy to see you got your car back and looking forward to see how this project unfolds.

This helps a ton thank you! I had similar dimensions in mind, was planning to build off the subframe mounts so it’s great to hear that works! Unfortunately subframes aren’t the easiest to come by for a 2002. There’s a front one for sale right now for nearly $300, so it’s hard to stomach just using that as a cart piece haha. Also good to hear on the wheels, I’m thinking of picking up some fairly heavy duty casters in order to make loading on a trailer safer. I’m concerned small wheels will get stuck in cracks and damage the cart.

[gnmzl]

As is I will probably have to put on some beefy casters to make sure it can roll onto a flatbed easily. My plan was to build two cross bars that bolt into the stock subframe locations, and then a fairly simple square tube frame cart that connects the front and rear.

That's what I did minus the frame that connected them both. Just made sure the tube between mounting point and caster wheel was thick and sturdy. In the end the wheels failed, but that's because I cheaped out. One thing to point out is I used old crossmembers, not sure how available are those for '02s
But you can always get creative with some thick metal and some 2x4s and mimic the stock crossmembers.
Heightwise I went about 14 inches or so of tube plus the wheels, which gave me enough clearance to crawl under the car and be able to use my hands without awkward positions. My end result looked like this.



Hope this helps you.
Very happy to see you got your car back and looking forward to see how this project unfolds.

[DawsonLiri]

So glad is back!
What is that 20% you need to finish?

[hinrichs]

Glad to see the car is back home again. How much of the underside do you plan on working on? I would say if you can swing it size wise, I would try and make a rotisserie for the car. using the frame horn ends is what I have seen most of the times before. Some of those were made with plywood on a simple angle to get the car to its one side. Either way just make sure whatever you design is easy enough to work around with getting a jack under the car to be able to remove it when needed.

[bwwaaaa]

Happy to see it!
I actually have advice but would need a bit more precise question, and also my first advice would be to build something that involves welding so it's something easy and thick to start with, without having to spend too much time sticking together endless boring scrap pieces that will make you lose momentum/interest

I've done some welding before, it has just been a long time. And my welds look like straight snot. But they held for whatever it was worth haha. So I'm not too worried jumping straight into the cart.

I guess my biggest question is about height. I'd like to be able to access the underside of the car while it is on the cart, but I'm worried about the cart being top heavy in transportation. As is I will probably have to put on some beefy casters to make sure it can roll onto a flatbed easily. My plan was to build two cross bars that bolt into the stock subframe locations, and then a fairly simple square tube frame cart that connects the front and rear. But I'm not sure if there is a ratio of width to height I should be following. Space in my garage is (painfully) limited, so I need it to be as narrow and as tall as I can safely manage. Of course those two things don't go hand in hand, so getting the exact ratio right will be fairly daunting.

[Fruttolo]

Happy to see it!
I actually have advice but would need a bit more precise question, and also my first advice would be to build something that involves welding so it's something easy and thick to start with, without having to spend too much time sticking together endless boring scrap pieces that will make you lose momentum/interest

[bwwaaaa]

It's Back!

I don't have a lot of new info to share quite yet, this weekend was busy. But the 2002 came back home. It's... about 80% done with the fabrication work I wanted done. However due to other more pressing projects, my 2002 was sent back home. It's all good, the last few items I can do myself, a perfect excuse to finally buy a welder and teach myself how to melt some metal.

More photos to come, but I was excited to finally have the car back in my hands. I still need to bring the engine and transmission home, as it is sitting on the shop floor. But it's all encouraging. Expect more information soon, I'm hoping to put in a few evenings of work cleaning up the car and organizing my work space to really tear this car down to an absolute bare shell.

Anyone have any advice building a cart to put the bare body on?