1974 Porsche 911S

[SebastienPeek]

Marco will get you setup, he knows how to build a great hot rod. Sadly nothing for these cars is cheap anymore, including the labor rates. Marco let me drive a mid year he had awhile ago with a 2.5L and a close ratio gearbox. It ripped!!! Almost nothing sounds as good as a 911 on carbs with a Dansk Rally megaphone muffler setup at 7k+ but it's not a neighbor or under the radar canyon friendly muffler setup.

Once you get in, pretty much everyone in the SoCal air-cooled Porsche world knows each other and for the most part the shops all get along really well. The last 10 years of so there has been plenty of work to go around.

You're not wrong there. I've budgeted roughly 35k for the complete engine rebuild and going to a carb setup. I am really looking forward to working with Marco on getting it sorted.
I'm not too concerned about neighbor friendly, as I won't be daily driving this car and honestly, my neighborhood is actually full of car enthusiasts, which has been both great and also made waiting to pull the trigger on this project even harder than it should have been!

It's nice to know that everyone in the SoCal air-cooled Porsche world knows each other, I'm excited to get more invested into it and spending more time hanging out with everyone when the time comes.

The consensus is Sanders hollow torsion bars are the best quality and hollow bars will have a better and more consistent heat treat. Painted ones are safer than plated due to hydrogen embrittlement concerns. Every once in a while someone gets a bad one that cracks but it is pretty rare. Elephant Racing has arguably the largest selection, highest market share, best customer service, and highest business capital should you have an issue so they are probably the best place to source them. I think they are the exclusive Sanders dealer now. A used set is also good as they don't really go bad but they are directional. Part of the manufacturing process is to scrag them or twist past the elastic point so they take a permanent set and that essentially artificially ages them and stabiles the spring rate so they don't have a break in period. Same reason you don't want to flip sides with a used axle. Axles on performance cars twist up a bit and if you flip sides, they will have to unwind and that will make them more likely to break. If you buy used, the torsion bars should be stamped L and R and if you can, ask the seller if they know what that is for to ensure they were installed on the correct sides.

Those are the strut mounts, I like how the monoball is tensioned with a threaded insert rather than bolted in like the Tarret ones. Porsche Motorsport uses the same threaded retention method on all the 964 and newer Cup and RSR cars and I think it allows more suspension travel though I have never measured it against the Tarett ones. Mine where built in the '90s and I don't know as MODE is still run by Bob Holcomb but back in the '90s he was known as Billet Bob because before CNC machining was so ubiquitous, he was CNCing 3D curved billet 1pc intercooler end tanks and all kinds of other crazy parts for big dollar Turbo cars. All really high end stuff. I often just search Ebay for MODE hoping to score a deal on a used ITB setup or set of headers he used to make but so far no luck. Everyone that has those parts seems to know what they have.

Something not well advertised but WEVO is a Ohlins dealer and they have a really nice single adjustable setup that isn't STUPID money for the rear shocks. If you want to get creative, the rear can be adapted to a double eye setup with the clevis adapters a few vendors sell and cheap Roundy Round shocks can be adapted on just by specing lengths. Anything as far as coilovers for the front gets really expensive. Coilover collars are a cheaper alternative but some force the use of 2.5" springs and they don't fit very well. The threaded body front struts and rear shocks can use 2.25" springs and those fit MUCH better into the shock towers and you loose less tire clearance in the front and can get more camber before the springs hit the body. You really want the drop hat upper spring perches for any coilover setup though front or rear to keep the spring out of the shock tower as much as you can. Just make sure the shock body fits up inside it if mixing and matching parts/vendors.

If you want them I have a set of Bilstien Sport rear shocks that came off of my car. ~10 years old but only 8k miles. I couldn't seem to sell them but they are too nice to throw out.

I'll price up some of the hollow torsion bars from Elephant Racing and see what the Porsche tax looks like. I remember VW days when changing to the larger torsion bars cost maybe $200 for the rear. Let's just say, the 911 is a different beast when it comes to price! I added the strut mounts to my bookmarks, much appreciated on getting confirmation on them. CNCing 3D curved billet 1pc intercooler end takes back in the 90s is just absolutely wild to think of! Now that MODE is on my radar, I'll definitely keep my eyes out if anything pops up.

I don't like the idea of doing the coilover collars actually, I feel like that is just a recipe for disaster as I've seen previous friends do something similar to a couple of e28's and have had bad experiences/cracks etc. I just don't trust them myself, I'd much prefer to get a setup that is tried and true and, bespoke but well distributed.

I might take you up on the set of Bilstein Sport rear shocks! Feel free to PM me with a price and we can organize how I can come and grab them.

[EvanFullerton]

Marco will get you setup, he knows how to build a great hot rod. Sadly nothing for these cars is cheap anymore, including the labor rates. Marco let me drive a mid year he had awhile ago with a 2.5L and a close ratio gearbox. It ripped!!! Almost nothing sounds as good as a 911 on carbs with a Dansk Rally megaphone muffler setup at 7k+ but it's not a neighbor or under the radar canyon friendly muffler setup.

Once you get in, pretty much everyone in the SoCal air-cooled Porsche world knows each other and for the most part the shops all get along really well. The last 10 years of so there has been plenty of work to go around.

The consensus is Sanders hollow torsion bars are the best quality and hollow bars will have a better and more consistent heat treat. Painted ones are safer than plated due to hydrogen embrittlement concerns. Every once in a while someone gets a bad one that cracks but it is pretty rare. Elephant Racing has arguably the largest selection, highest market share, best customer service, and highest business capital should you have an issue so they are probably the best place to source them. I think they are the exclusive Sanders dealer now. A used set is also good as they don't really go bad but they are directional. Part of the manufacturing process is to scrag them or twist past the elastic point so they take a permanent set and that essentially artificially ages them and stabiles the spring rate so they don't have a break in period. Same reason you don't want to flip sides with a used axle. Axles on performance cars twist up a bit and if you flip sides, they will have to unwind and that will make them more likely to break. If you buy used, the torsion bars should be stamped L and R and if you can, ask the seller if they know what that is for to ensure they were installed on the correct sides.

Those are the strut mounts, I like how the monoball is tensioned with a threaded insert rather than bolted in like the Tarret ones. Porsche Motorsport uses the same threaded retention method on all the 964 and newer Cup and RSR cars and I think it allows more suspension travel though I have never measured it against the Tarett ones. Mine where built in the '90s and I don't know as MODE is still run by Bob Holcomb but back in the '90s he was known as Billet Bob because before CNC machining was so ubiquitous, he was CNCing 3D curved billet 1pc intercooler end tanks and all kinds of other crazy parts for big dollar Turbo cars. All really high end stuff. I often just search Ebay for MODE hoping to score a deal on a used ITB setup or set of headers he used to make but so far no luck. Everyone that has those parts seems to know what they have.

Something not well advertised but WEVO is a Ohlins dealer and they have a really nice single adjustable setup that isn't STUPID money for the rear shocks. If you want to get creative, the rear can be adapted to a double eye setup with the clevis adapters a few vendors sell and cheap Roundy Round shocks can be adapted on just by specing lengths. Anything as far as coilovers for the front gets really expensive. Coilover collars are a cheaper alternative but some force the use of 2.5" springs and they don't fit very well. The threaded body front struts and rear shocks can use 2.25" springs and those fit MUCH better into the shock towers and you loose less tire clearance in the front and can get more camber before the springs hit the body. You really want the drop hat upper spring perches for any coilover setup though front or rear to keep the spring out of the shock tower as much as you can. Just make sure the shock body fits up inside it if mixing and matching parts/vendors.

If you want them I have a set of Bilstien Sport rear shocks that came off of my car. ~10 years old but only 8k miles. I couldn't seem to sell them but they are too nice to throw out.

[SebastienPeek]

Elephant Racing (never to be confused with ERP) is great for some stuff, like actually shipping product on time and answering the phone, and if you just want to one stop shop a complete package but they don't have the best design on everything. If you want the best, this is my opinion.

Rebel Racing, they make the best double sheer bump steer kit, and suspension pivot parts. Some how I ended up with 3 sets of control arms and trailing arms (don't ask) and the Rebel Racing, Elephant Poly Bronze, and custom machined delrin on each of them. The Rebel Racing pivots are by far the nicest kit, but if on a budget, delrin works almost as well. Rebel's 935 front suspension kit (coilover only) uses stock ball joints which will be the longest lasting. They also make a nice billet steering shaft coupler replacement for the factory rubber.

MODE (sold on Ebay or through Patrick Motorsports) make the nicest/longest lasting front strut tops/camber plates. WEVO's are lighter and Tarett's are great just not as elegantly engineered. Haven't used the Elephant ones but I don't really see the point unless you are going to change camber between sets of wheels. Still have to reset the toe again, seem like a solution looking for a problem.

JWE (Jerry Woods Enterprise) makes the nicest aftermarket through body Swaybars with Tarett Engineering's being a close second and significantly cheaper. Eibach makes an adjustable underbody set now. Haven't used them myself but they get good reviews and are significantly cheaper.

ERP (Eisenlohr Racing Products sold through Tarett) makes the nicest 935 rear spring plates with the largest heim joints. His 935 front suspension is also the original and super nice that use monoball bearings for the ball joint with a custom pin so you get more roll center correction then with a factory ball joint at the expense of some suspension travel. Carry Eisenlohr is a Professional race car chassis engineer and everything he builds is Pro motorsports quality and he is a super nice guy to top it off.

Hayden of WEVO is Ex Formula 1 so that's why everything WEVO makes is top shelf quality and weight optimized.

If you want anything more custom and off menu then the above suppliers offer. Tyson Schmidt of PRO MOTORSPORTS in Burbank is your guy. I used to work with Tyson and he is ex TRE, ex WEVO. He designed and built Jack Olsen's BBII while at TRE and was a big part of Pete von Behren's carbon body, ceramic braked, extended wheel base, 6 speed swapped, GT3 Cup motored 912 while at WEVO. Two of arguably the most famous and successful dual purpose 911s built in the last 20 years. We have been talking lately about a custom SLA pushrod digressive spring rate front suspension setup for his personal '69 911. If that's the direction he goes, it should be pretty wild.

...... but to have a nice street car that works at the track, you don't need any of it. Factory suspension with bigger torsion bars and sway bars, 930 tie rods, a good alignment, rack spacers for bump steer, and some shocks that aren't worn out is all you need. 930 under body front sway bar is bigger and urethane bushings for it help a lot. I think 30mm is the minimum rear torsion bar you should consider, 33 would be my pick if you upgrade the fronts. On the fronts if you upgrade, just go straight to 24mm. The control arm itself is a torsion bar that works as a series spring so the wheel rate and change from stock is much lower than what you read online. The front, unless you raise the spindles, you don't have much suspension travel left when lowered so put a nice fat bump stop in there with a big swaybar and have a progressive to infinite spring rate. That's how I ran my 911 and my 914 as a broke teenager/college student. It works.

Once again, some seriously awesome information! I am so thankful that you're taking the time out of your day to write this all up, it does not go unnoticed and I am, again, very thankful.

I actually purchased the CamberMax Adjusters this morning as I am curious if they will work as advertised with the current rear setup. I'm hopeful they at least get the setup closer to rolling around so it's easier to get the car on a trailer when the time comes to drop it off at TLG Auto who will be doing the engine work. They're currently moving shops and will literally be a two minute drive from my house. Basically the close proximity to TLG Auto and the fact that Marco and I spoke on the phone for quite some time just discussing the options for the current engine and all that, I'm very strongly of the opinion that TLG will be completing the rebuild.

I spent a decent amount of time looking through the catalogs of Rebel Racing, Patrick Motorsports and ERP and I am very interested to see where the money goes when the time comes. But as you mentioned, going to a larger torsion bar and sway bar setup, along with the 930 tie rods (already have them, just need to install) would most likely be the way to go for what I am looking for. That is a seriously good tid bit about the front torsion bars, I'll definitely start to price up everything and get it sorted. When it comes to the torsion bar upgrade, would you recommend solid or hollow torsion bars?

Just want to confirm, the MODE strut tops/camber plates are these ones: https://patrickmotorsports.com/produ...6ecbb4a9&_ss=r
I'm considering getting them sooner rather than later, as I wouldn't mind getting everything aligned at the same time as installing the 930 tie rods that I already have waiting to go in.

The coil-over setups are not cheap, they get progressively more expensive. I do think that at some stage I will bite the bullet and do it, but right now, I like your recommendation quite a bit to just get going.

[EvanFullerton]

I have so many bookmarks in a folder waiting for the day, and have been eying Elephant Racing suspension since day one of purchasing this vehicle. When the time and budget allows, I think that will be the move.

Elephant Racing (never to be confused with ERP) is great for some stuff, like actually shipping product on time and answering the phone, and if you just want to one stop shop a complete package but they don't have the best design on everything. If you want the best, this is my opinion.

Rebel Racing, they make the best double sheer bump steer kit, and suspension pivot parts. Some how I ended up with 3 sets of control arms and trailing arms (don't ask) and the Rebel Racing, Elephant Poly Bronze, and custom machined delrin on each of them. The Rebel Racing pivots are by far the nicest kit, but if on a budget, delrin works almost as well. Rebel's 935 front suspension kit (coilover only) uses stock ball joints which will be the longest lasting. They also make a nice billet steering shaft coupler replacement for the factory rubber.

MODE (sold on Ebay or through Patrick Motorsports) make the nicest/longest lasting front strut tops/camber plates. WEVO's are lighter and Tarett's are great just not as elegantly engineered. Haven't used the Elephant ones but I don't really see the point unless you are going to change camber between sets of wheels. Still have to reset the toe again, seem like a solution looking for a problem.

JWE (Jerry Woods Enterprise) makes the nicest aftermarket through body Swaybars with Tarett Engineering's being a close second and significantly cheaper. Eibach makes an adjustable underbody set now. Haven't used them myself but they get good reviews and are significantly cheaper.

ERP (Eisenlohr Racing Products sold through Tarett) makes the nicest 935 rear spring plates with the largest heim joints. His 935 front suspension is also the original and super nice that use monoball bearings for the ball joint with a custom pin so you get more roll center correction then with a factory ball joint at the expense of some suspension travel. Carry Eisenlohr is a Professional race car chassis engineer and everything he builds is Pro motorsports quality and he is a super nice guy to top it off.

Hayden of WEVO is Ex Formula 1 so that's why everything WEVO makes is top shelf quality and weight optimized.

If you want anything more custom and off menu then the above suppliers offer. Tyson Schmidt of PRO MOTORSPORTS in Burbank is your guy. I used to work with Tyson and he is ex TRE, ex WEVO. He designed and built Jack Olsen's BBII while at TRE and was a big part of Pete von Behren's carbon body, ceramic braked, extended wheel base, 6 speed swapped, GT3 Cup motored 912 while at WEVO. Two of arguably the most famous and successful dual purpose 911s built in the last 20 years. We have been talking lately about a custom SLA pushrod digressive spring rate front suspension setup for his personal '69 911. If that's the direction he goes, it should be pretty wild.

...... but to have a nice street car that works at the track, you don't need any of it. Factory suspension with bigger torsion bars and sway bars, 930 tie rods, a good alignment, rack spacers for bump steer, and some shocks that aren't worn out is all you need. 930 under body front sway bar is bigger and urethane bushings for it help a lot. I think 30mm is the minimum rear torsion bar you should consider, 33 would be my pick if you upgrade the fronts. On the fronts if you upgrade, just go straight to 24mm. The control arm itself is a torsion bar that works as a series spring so the wheel rate and change from stock is much lower than what you read online. The front, unless you raise the spindles, you don't have much suspension travel left when lowered so put a nice fat bump stop in there with a big swaybar and have a progressive to infinite spring rate. That's how I ran my 911 and my 914 as a broke teenager/college student. It works.

[drop tuck n' roll]

Daymmm this thing is looking Good, Good Shit Seb!!!

[SebastienPeek]

My 18in Fikse are 8.5 ET 28 and 10 ET 19.

8.5 ET 28 is pretty much perfect in the front for a torsion bar race car. Maybe you could go as high as ET35 if you don't want to run -3 camber. It works out to around 1/2" of fender lip clearance per degree of camber.

The 10 ET 19 works out to 6.25in back space. You can't go anymore inboard then that in the back unless you run a stretched tire as you already have to grind the spring plate bolt heads to clear the tire. If we say a 7in ET23 is the max front spacing for a reasonable amount of camber (-2 in the rear), in theory a 8.75 ET 50 would be the maximum you can fit in the rear of a true narrow body if I have done my math right.

The camber max adjuster help you adjust and hold a camber setting better than the factory cam setup but to get camber, you are twisting the control arm. The factory inner trailing arm bushings bind too much to allow you the full range of camber adjustment. Going to monoballs in the inner trailing arm pickup points allows access to a wider range of camber settings. The whole factory spring plate setup for camber and toe is a right pain to set and if you have big sticky tires, you have to over torque the bolt with a soft washer to hold a setting (washer deforms into the rest of the slot, locking in the setting). One of the benefits of going to coilovers in the rear is being able to use 935 style spring plates and separate the toe and camber adjustments. The chassis wasn't really designed for coil overs though so you need to weld in reinforcements to the shock tower. Easier to do before it cracks than after. RSRs ran torsion bars and helper coil over springs but the replica reinforcement kits of what the factory did seem to be enough for most for true coilovers.

This is brilliant information in regards to offset and wheel sizes, I really truly appreciate that!
I'll have to get the tires stripped off of the RS' and start measuring them up for a build.

I was considering having the RS' as the "stretched tire" wheels, but I do think that I want to be able to run them with a meaty, race fitment.
Maybe there will be another set of RS' built for the stretched slammed look, but the goal for this car is really to just be a static, fun, weekend canyon carver but with a setup that can allow me to easily drive it to a track and spend a few laps pushing it.

When the engine does come out, I was already going to get the shock towers reinforced at the same time just as a pre-emptive measure as I figured coil overs may become an option at some point in the future of this car.
I have so many bookmarks in a folder waiting for the day, and have been eying Elephant Racing suspension since day one of purchasing this vehicle. When the time and budget allows, I think that will be the move.

[EvanFullerton]

My 18in Fikse are 8.5 ET 28 and 10 ET 19.

8.5 ET 28 is pretty much perfect in the front for a torsion bar race car. Maybe you could go as high as ET35 if you don't want to run -3 camber. It works out to around 1/2" of fender lip clearance per degree of camber.

The 10 ET 19 works out to 6.25in back space. You can't go anymore inboard then that in the back unless you run a stretched tire as you already have to grind the spring plate bolt heads to clear the tire. If we say a 7in ET23 is the max front spacing for a reasonable amount of camber (-2 in the rear), in theory a 8.75 ET 50 would be the maximum you can fit in the rear of a true narrow body if I have done my math right.

The camber max adjuster help you adjust and hold a camber setting better than the factory cam setup but to get camber, you are twisting the control arm. The factory inner trailing arm bushings bind too much to allow you the full range of camber adjustment. Going to monoballs in the inner trailing arm pickup points allows access to a wider range of camber settings. The whole factory spring plate setup for camber and toe is a right pain to set and if you have big sticky tires, you have to over torque the bolt with a soft washer to hold a setting (washer deforms into the rest of the slot, locking in the setting). One of the benefits of going to coilovers in the rear is being able to use 935 style spring plates and separate the toe and camber adjustments. The chassis wasn't really designed for coil overs though so you need to weld in reinforcements to the shock tower. Easier to do before it cracks than after. RSRs ran torsion bars and helper coil over springs but the replica reinforcement kits of what the factory did seem to be enough for most for true coilovers.

[SebastienPeek]

My car is a '75 but there isn't much left I haven't modified or replaced at this point. My Dad and I pulled it out of vacant lot in LA as an engineless roller in 2007. The original build was super budget back when these cars were cheap and the parts weren't rediculouls. I had a pretty hot rodded 914-4 at the time (my first car) and my Dad was tired of getting destroyed at the PCA autocross in his 912E so the 911 was supposed to help him keep up.

Original setup when I bought the 911 off him in 2010 after I sold my 993RSR clone was a 3.0L sourced from the Fresno PickAPart and subsequently replaced all the head studs, front mount oil cooler setup with Elephant lines and a Nascar oil cooler off Ebay, and just enough suspension to sort of make it work. It was an awesome street car and I kinda wish I had just left it mostly that way as it was fun to drive and plenty fast for the street. Big Willow you noticed the lack of power though with only 167whp. Turn 8 was pretty nuts with the autocross suspension setup I had and no aero though. Nothing quite like holding 15 degrees of opposite steering lock on flat in 5th and then having to try and haul it all down for turn 9.

It was pretty perfect though for when POC used to run events at the Pomona Fairplex. I had the second fastest time for an Air-cooled car this day on 205/50/15 Spec Miata take off Hoosiers.

I was sponsored as a driver and ended up working for a Porsche shop building all manner of money no object custom race cars in College at the time and what made sense then........ didn't after I finished my engineering degree and got a real job that pays much better but now don't have much time or access to facilities.

This sounds like an amazing experience into getting into the Porsche world! It definitely sounds like a budget build back in the day but something that would have been such a great time to have done with your Dad and all that!
I can definitely understand the lack of power with only a 167whp, I think that's why the engine build I want to try and get that figure closer to at least 200whp and see how that feels. It being CIS right now and definitely not tuned in anyway, I can only imagine that it is definitely down on power as is.

Getting to work in a Porsche shop building race cars through college would have been great fun! I'm sure there's a lot of builds that would make a lot of people jealous.
I understand the real money but not the time or facilities. I've been very lucky that money is finally no longer a factor for this project.

As with all projects, budget, time, and desired outcome are the real constraints on where you should go suspension wise. Sounds like you need a motor and with a 915 with a 7-31 R&P, a trans rebuild won't be far behind so that will be the biggest expenses to worry about (and a front mount or fender oil cooler if you don't already have one). There are lots of tired and true suspension setups from mild to wild depending on budget and desired street manners. I wouldn't go for coilovers unless you plan on tracking the car a lot. Nothing wrong with torsion bars and the chassis was made to be supported by them, there is just a limit with how stiff you can go with them and as you approach that, you loose droop travel also....... and you are limited to the factory pickup point locations.

I don't think you will be able to fit 255 on the rear even with custom offset wheels. I can JUST fit 275s on 10in wheels under Carrera rear flares and they are close to 2in wider. 225 or 235, maybe 245 (depending on tire brand) will be about max I think on a 8in or 8.5in wheel with a higher offset then factory if you don't want rub or go with REALLY stiff suspension. There is more room up front especially if you start messing with the king pin inclination of the strut. On a torsion bar car you can fit a 245 on the front with the right offset 8.5in wheel and a fender roll. With coilovers you loose space to go in with higher offsets. I had to stretch my front fenders quite a bit to make 245 on a 8.5in fit up front with coilers and a 1.5 degree strut decamber. The hot setup is to add positive camber to the strut, run high offset wheels and lengthen the lower control arm to get the camber back........ but that's well into the money no object ultimate setup.

With factory offset torsion bar 911 wheels, a 7in ET23 front and rear with a 225 tires or 16" 951 ('86 944 Turbo Rear) 8in ET23 Fuchs are all you can fit front and rear on a true narrow body 911. Factory 8in wheels are ET15 and there is just no way to fit them on a narrow body car without LOTS of customization (there are early 912 front hubs that narrow the track width up front but not much you can do in the rear).

Budget and time are the real constraints right now. With a child coming in July, I'm trying to square away making sure that this thing is at least budgeted for a full motor rebuild in October. Hopefully that timeline is sped up a bit with a couple of windfalls that may or may not occur, but I'm hopeful I'll actually be dropping the car off to the shop in early July. Fingers crossed anyway! I'm definitely going to need a transmission rebuild at some point, but I feel like I'll get quite a few more smiles for miles before that occurs unless I do track it some time in 2022 (but I don't think that is going to happen), not with everything else happening in life anyway. You're not wrong about the coil-overs, I kind of saw them as an option to run as stiff a spring necessary to get the fitment and contact patch that I want without ruining the guards.

So the tire on the rear is currently a 255/50 and I have a feeling that with the adjusters that I can get from Elephant Racing, I might be able to get the tires under the guard in a reasonable manner. Otherwise I could go down to 235 quite easily. There is an incredible amount of room in the front, and I'd like to try and build up the set of RS' that I have hiding in the garage to get the specs exactly how I want them for this thing. It's nice to know what the option is though to do the lengthened lower control arm setup, it's basically what the cool kids do with their slammed IS300's and 350/70Z's to get the ridiculous camber specs but I don't want that at all, I am all about meaty fitment on this thing.

I'll have to take a look more into getting the fronts where I want them, I do have the RS' just sitting in the garage, maybe I'll test fit them up at this height just to get the lay of the land. I do like the fuch's though, they're classics after all. And like you said, there's only so much you can stuff in the rear of a narrow body car without a lot of customization and cutting things up, which is just something I don't plan on doing with this one... not yet anyway

[EvanFullerton]

My car is a '75 but there isn't much left I haven't modified or replaced at this point. My Dad and I pulled it out of vacant lot in LA as an engineless roller in 2007. The original build was super budget back when these cars were cheap and the parts weren't rediculouls. I had a pretty hot rodded 914-4 at the time (my first car) and my Dad was tired of getting destroyed at the PCA autocross in his 912E so the 911 was supposed to help him keep up.

Original setup when I bought the 911 off him in 2010 after I sold my 993RSR clone was a 3.0L sourced from the Fresno PickAPart and subsequently replaced all the head studs, front mount oil cooler setup with Elephant lines and a Nascar oil cooler off Ebay, and just enough suspension to sort of make it work. It was an awesome street car and I kinda wish I had just left it mostly that way as it was fun to drive and plenty fast for the street. Big Willow you noticed the lack of power though with only 167whp. Turn 8 was pretty nuts with the autocross suspension setup I had and no aero though. Nothing quite like holding 15 degrees of opposite steering lock on flat in 5th and then having to try and haul it all down for turn 9.

It was pretty perfect though for when POC used to run events at the Pomona Fairplex. I had the second fastest time for an Air-cooled car this day on 205/50/15 Spec Miata take off Hoosiers.

I was sponsored as a driver and ended up working for a Porsche shop building all manner of money no object custom race cars in College at the time and what made sense then........ didn't after I finished my engineering degree and got a real job that pays much better but now don't have much time or access to facilities.

As with all projects, budget, time, and desired outcome are the real constraints on where you should go suspension wise. Sounds like you need a motor and with a 915 with a 7-31 R&P, a trans rebuild won't be far behind so that will be the biggest expenses to worry about (and a front mount or fender oil cooler if you don't already have one). There are lots of tried and true suspension setups from mild to wild depending on budget and desired street manners. I wouldn't go for coilovers unless you plan on tracking the car a lot. Nothing wrong with torsion bars and the chassis was made to be supported by them, there is just a limit with how stiff you can go with them and as you approach that, you loose droop travel also....... and you are limited to the factory pickup point locations.

I don't think you will be able to fit 255 on the rear even with custom offset wheels. I can JUST fit 275s on 10in wheels under Carrera rear flares and they are close to 2in wider. 225 or 235, maybe 245 (depending on tire brand) will be about max I think on a 8in or 8.5in wheel with a higher offset then factory if you don't want rub or go with REALLY stiff suspension. There is more room up front especially if you start messing with the king pin inclination of the strut. On a torsion bar car you can fit a 245 on the front with the right offset 8.5in wheel and a fender roll. With coilovers you loose space to go in with higher offsets. I had to stretch my front fenders quite a bit to make 245 on a 8.5in fit up front with coilovers and a 1.5 degree strut decamber. The hot setup is to add positive camber (opposite of decamber) to the strut, run high offset wheels and lengthen the lower control arm to get the camber back........ but that's well into the money no object ultimate setup.

With factory offset torsion bar 911 wheels, a 7in ET23 front and rear with a 225 tires or 16" 951 ('86 944 Turbo Rear) 8in ET23 Fuchs are all you can fit front and rear on a true narrow body 911. Factory 911 8in wheels are ET11 and there is just no way to fit them on a narrow body car without LOTS of customization (there are early 912 front hubs that narrow the track width up front but not much you can do in the rear).

We had 205/55/16 on 16x7 ET23 wheels on the 912E at euro ride height with 26mm rear torsions. It rubbed on big bumps and wallowed like a whale at the track.

I had the same 205/55/16 on 16x7 ET23 wheels on the 911 with 30mm rear torsions, lots of camber that you can only get with inner monoballs, and it still moved around a LOT and rubbed on full compression with factory bump stops. The 205/50/15 also rubbed... but they were Hoosiers so they measure really wide for the size. The roll center in the rear of a 911 is pretty low and gets lower as you lower the car. You need a LOT of rear wheel rate to not rub or a BIG rear sway bar and I never liked how a big rear bar made the car feel. Especially if you have an open diff. Taking the rear sway bar off has been something I have done to every car I have raced so far.

[SebastienPeek]

Seeing these pictures sure makes me wish I hadn't gone so extreme with my car. A narrow body short hood is just such a good looking car.

I don't know what you plan on doing with the car but if you drive it hard, the rear tires are going to rub, there is no way around it. I had 30mm rear torsions on my car, a race alignment with inner monoballs so I could get more rear camber, and 205/55/16s on 7s and 205/50/15s on 7s both rubbed on full compression. Switching from Koni to Bilstein shocks helped just enough with the added shock gas pressure but I still burned a bit of paint off the passenger rear fender and had to repaint a section periodically. Same static ride height in the two photos, just a 25.5in tire vs 23in. It was pretty low but not stupid low statically but even 30mm torsions aren't enough if you run sticky tires and drive it hard. When I took the car apart, I had a polished spot on the frame rail from the CV boot. New setup is going to have a C-notch in the frame rail to keep that from happening again.

First up, thank you for your response, it's always nice to see what others have done to their narrow body short hoods and that they have the same love for them as I do!

Secondly, I'll definitely want to drive this pretty hard, specifically some weekend track days etc once the engine is sorted. I have plans to go complete coil over setup, but I'm always interested to find out more on how everyone did it before the 8k coil over investment occurs. I'd love to poke your brain more about the rear setup you have! What year is yours? I think your rear is a hell of a lot lower than mine when squatting, but I do want to drop the rear a tiny bit more.

My current tire setup is as follows.
Front: 205/55/16
Rear: 255/50/16

I am pretty certain that I can get the 255's to fit properly in the rear with a little camber help. I haven't changed anything suspension component wise, nor added anything yet. This rear drop is a single outer spline on the factory torsion bar, which I believe is a 23mm rear. I wouldn't mind going up to a turbo 26mm in the rear to add some stiffness, but not sure if it'll be necessary for a good while. I am interested in your rear setup, perhaps you can share more images via a PM or, if even at all possible, I could venture out and take a look personally?

[EvanFullerton]

Seeing these pictures sure makes me wish I hadn't gone so extreme with my car. A narrow body short hood is just such a good looking car.

I don't know what you plan on doing with the car but if you drive it hard, the rear tires are going to rub, there is no way around it. I had 30mm rear torsions on my car, a race alignment with inner monoballs so I could get more rear camber, and 205/55/16s on 7s and 205/50/15s on 7s both rubbed on full compression. Switching from Koni to Bilstein shocks helped just enough with the added shock gas pressure but I still burned a bit of paint off the passenger rear fender and had to repaint a section periodically. Same static ride height in the two photos, just a 25.5in tire vs 23in. It was pretty low but not stupid low statically but even 30mm torsions aren't enough if you run sticky tires and drive it hard. When I took the car apart, I had a polished spot on the frame rail from the CV boot. New setup is going to have a C-notch in the frame rail to keep that from happening again.

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[SebastienPeek]

In the interest of more content, and to aid in keeping my sanity, I figured I'd actually get non-iPhone photos for once of this thing...

Here's a fun fact, I actually had old photos on my SD card that I never put up here.
So a little comparison is necessary. This is before lowering the rear.



And this is current lowered height.
You'll also notice that I removed the rocker covers. I'm going to keep them off, but want to get the bottom bit smoothed out (no gravel guard) and nicely painted.



Safe to say, it's a bit of a difference. Speaking of difference, I definitely think just getting the camber adjusters I alluded to previously will fix the guard on tire situation.





I am really enjoying the positioning of the wheel within the rear guard, I quite like the chunkiness of the tire.
If the camber brings the wheel in enough, we could probably go down a bit more as well.







I've got a few things I'd like to tackle in the next week/next weekend.
That being the removal of all the original sound deadening in the rear as well as getting the drivers side carpets out etc.





Also, love me some Momo pr0n.



Speaking of Momo, I'm pretty confident that's the route I am going to go with seats and harnesses when the time comes.
Anyway, there's some content for the non-existent viewers of this forum.

[SebastienPeek]

Love seeing any updates on this, looks so good lowered down. Any way to dial in a hair of camber to get the fitment without a roll or cut?

Actually yes, there is a neat little adjuster that can be purchased at a decent price, but definitely might be worth it instead of cutting anything or rolling. I am surprised I didn't even consider that option, so many thanks!

I might try and buy this in the very near future and get it sorted.

[hinrichs]

Love seeing any updates on this, looks so good lowered down. Any way to dial in a hair of camber to get the fitment without a roll or cut?

[SebastienPeek]

Welp, this weekend was some 911 content!

The whole goal, with changing elements of the life these days, was to get the 911 back on the ground and pushable to make room for some cleaning of the garage.
After spending some time lowering the rear, I got the wheels fitted up how I want and the 911 back on the floor.

These were taken before I did a lot of clean up in the garage. This was basically as soon as it touched the floor.





I then cleaned up the garage, got a few things buttoned up that I wanted too and snagged these couple of photos as well.





I didn't get any close up pictures of the rear fitment, but it is currently resting on the tire so that's gonna be a no. Not until I either roll or cut the guards flat, unsure just yet.

As the year goes on, hopefully some money comes together and I can get the engine sorted properly.