what other v6/tt/awd 90's jap cars can you remember?

[DoWant]

What are the wheels on the e36?

[ZammoTheChoppa]

A few mm difference between tires won't cause any discernable vibration/grinding/popping/wear on your differentials. Do you really think tires wear perfectly even all around on cars? Give me a break and stop spreading unfactual information about AWD systems. It doesn't matter if it's torsen, viscous, Haldex, or some other variation; they are engineered to have rotational variation amongst the tires (torque/rotational differences is how they work in the first place).

Find me ONE example of someone on any forum, anywhere, for any AWD car brand that has blown a diff from running staggered width wheels with properly matched tires.

General rule of thumb for staggering tires on AWD cars is the keep the overall diameter within 3% from front to rear.

With 18x10 and 18x12s I would recommend any of the following combinations:

225/40 and 265/35 (.87%)

235/40 and 265/35 (.4%)

235/40 and 275/35 (.67%)

Personally, I'd go with the 235/40 and 275/40 combo because 3000GTs are pretty big cars and deserve meaty tires.

Also, that combo will give you the most symetrical stetch from front to rear so you don't have barely stretched tires in the front and super stretched tires in the rear.

If you want to play with more tire size combos, I like this tire calculator:
http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalculator.asp

OOOOOOHHHHHHHH no no no no U SIR are WRONG

this will be long

The ability of four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles to divide the engine's horsepower between its four tires is especially useful on loose or slippery surfaces such as sand and dirt, as well as on wet, icy or snow-covered roads. However it's important to remember that in order to transfer this extra power, the four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicle's driveline mechanically connects the tires so they work in unison.

Four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles are equipped with additional differentials and/or viscous couplings that are designed to allow momentary differences in wheel speeds when the vehicle turns a corner or temporarily spins a tire. However, if the differentials or viscous couplings are forced to operate 100% of the time because of mismatched tires, they will experience excessive heat and unwarranted wear until they fail.

This necessitates that four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles use tires that are very closely matched. This is because different diameter tires roll a different number of times each mile as a result of the variations in their circumferences. Tire diameter variations can be caused by accidentally using different sized tires, tires with different tread designs, tires made by different manufacturers, different inflation pressures or even tires worn to different tread depths.

As an example of different tire diameters resulting from tires worn to different tread depths, we'll compare two 225/45R17-sized tires, a new tire with its original tread depth of 10/32-inch and a second tire worn to 8/32-inch of remaining tread depth. The new 225/45R17-sized tire has a calculated diameter of 24.97", a circumference of 78.44" and will roll 835 times each mile. The same tire worn to 8/32-inch of remaining tread depth is calculated to be 1/8" shorter with a diameter of 24.84", have a circumference of 78.04" and will roll 839 times per mile. While the difference of 1/8" in overall diameter doesn't seem excessive, the resulting 4 revolutions per mile difference can place a continuous strain on the tires and vehicle's driveline. Obviously, the greater the difference in the tires' circumferences, the greater the resulting strain.

This makes maintaining the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tire inflation pressures and using "matched" tires on all wheel positions necessary procedures to reduce strain on the vehicle's driveline. Using "matched" tires means all four tires are the same brand, design and tread depth. Mixing tire brands, tread designs and tread depths may cause components in the vehicle's driveline to fail.

Mismatched tires or using improper inflation pressures for all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles can also result in immediate drivability problems. Some Control Trac equipped vehicles in 4Auto mode may exhibit a shutter on acceleration and/or a noise from the front driveline and transfer case while driving. Some all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles may exhibit axle windup or binding while driving. Some four-wheel drive vehicles (manual or electronic shift) with a two-wheel drive mode may refuse to shift "on the fly" into 4x4 Auto or 4x4 High at highway speeds.

Rotating Tires

Because the front and rear tires of all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles perform different duties while accelerating, braking and cornering, tire rotation is important to even out, and maintain equivalent treadwear of all of the vehicle's tires to minimize potential driveline stresses.

If the vehicle is equipped with a matching road wheel and full-sized spare tire, they should be integrated into the vehicle's rotation pattern at the first tire rotation. This will allow all five of the vehicle's tires to share in the workload and wear at similar rates. In the event that a single tire is damaged and has to be removed from service, this will allow the tread depth equivalent spare tire to be used with the remaining three tires.

If the spare is not integrated into the vehicle's tire rotation pattern, it will not match the tread depth of the four worn tires on the ground when called into service. Additionally, if a single tire is replaced by the full size spare tire, hopefully the new replacement tire can remain as the spare tire until the other four tires have worn out and need to be replaced.

Replacing Pairs of Tires or Individual Tires

There are several suggestions that have been offered to drivers who are replacing pairs or individual tires on their four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. Some vehicle manufacturers recommend that all tires maintain the same rolling radius and circumference, while others suggest that all tire circumferences remain within 1/4- to 1/2-inch of each other. Other vehicle manufacturers recommend that all four tires remain within 2/32-, 3/32- or 4/32-inch of each other, or within 30% of each other in relative remaining tread depth.

Regardless of the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations, the least stressful application is when all four tires are the same tire brand, tread design and equivalent tread depth.

Before buying pairs or individual tires for all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles, drivers should read their vehicle's owners manual or contact the dealer's service department for confirmation of their specific vehicle's requirements.

Matching Tires By Shaving Them to Maintain Equivalent Tire Tread Depths

What does a driver do if one tire has to be removed from service when it and the other three tires have already worn to two-thirds to one-half of their original tread depth? Simply installing one new tire runs the risk of drivability problems or expensive driveline damage. Replacing the other three partially worn tires along with the damaged tire significantly increases the cost.

Tire Rack can provide a solution by matching the tread depth of the replacement tire to the tread depth of the partially worn tires that will remain on the vehicle by removing tread rubber from a new tire on a specialized machine that operates as a tire lathe. While this may seem counterintuitive, the value of the mileage sacrificed by the one replacement tire is considerably less than the cost of rebuilding worn driveline components.

Tire Rack has offered a tire shaving service that has been primarily used for preparing competition tires for racetrack use. This same service can also be used to remove tread rubber from new pairs or individual street tires used on four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles to allow them to match the remaining tread depth of the other partially worn tires that will remain on the vehicle. In addition to providing equivalent tread depth to eliminate driveline stress, shaved tires will also better match the traction and handling qualities of the remaining worn tires.

While the cost of our street tire shaving service will range from $25 to $35 for each tire, it is significantly less than the cost of unnecessarily replacing the remaining two or three good tires with lots of mileage still available from them.

Here are recommendations from some of the manufactures that Tire Rack currently serves for matching the tires used on their four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. Additional recommendations from other Original Equipment Vehicle Manufacturers is pending.

Audi As published in their vehicle owner's manual, "rolling radius of all 4 tires must remain the same" or within 4/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.
Porsche Cayenne within 30% of the other tire on the same axle's remaining treadwear.
Subaru Within 1/4-inch of tire circumference or about 2/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.

Then you can read some more here at the bottom of the page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_rotation

or here

http://askville.amazon.com/replace-tires-AWD-car/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2651049

or here

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=207437

Not everybody lives off mommy and daddies trust fund money and dont want to or cant replace parts unnecessarilly or just get another car when they fuck one

[padraigmk3]

OOOOOOHHHHHHHH no no no no U SIR are WRONG

this will be long

The ability of four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles to divide the engine's horsepower between its four tires is especially useful on loose or slippery surfaces such as sand and dirt, as well as on wet, icy or snow-covered roads. However it's important to remember that in order to transfer this extra power, the four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicle's driveline mechanically connects the tires so they work in unison.

Four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles are equipped with additional differentials and/or viscous couplings that are designed to allow momentary differences in wheel speeds when the vehicle turns a corner or temporarily spins a tire. However, if the differentials or viscous couplings are forced to operate 100% of the time because of mismatched tires, they will experience excessive heat and unwarranted wear until they fail.

This necessitates that four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles use tires that are very closely matched. This is because different diameter tires roll a different number of times each mile as a result of the variations in their circumferences. Tire diameter variations can be caused by accidentally using different sized tires, tires with different tread designs, tires made by different manufacturers, different inflation pressures or even tires worn to different tread depths.

As an example of different tire diameters resulting from tires worn to different tread depths, we'll compare two 225/45R17-sized tires, a new tire with its original tread depth of 10/32-inch and a second tire worn to 8/32-inch of remaining tread depth. The new 225/45R17-sized tire has a calculated diameter of 24.97", a circumference of 78.44" and will roll 835 times each mile. The same tire worn to 8/32-inch of remaining tread depth is calculated to be 1/8" shorter with a diameter of 24.84", have a circumference of 78.04" and will roll 839 times per mile. While the difference of 1/8" in overall diameter doesn't seem excessive, the resulting 4 revolutions per mile difference can place a continuous strain on the tires and vehicle's driveline. Obviously, the greater the difference in the tires' circumferences, the greater the resulting strain.

This makes maintaining the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tire inflation pressures and using "matched" tires on all wheel positions necessary procedures to reduce strain on the vehicle's driveline. Using "matched" tires means all four tires are the same brand, design and tread depth. Mixing tire brands, tread designs and tread depths may cause components in the vehicle's driveline to fail.

Mismatched tires or using improper inflation pressures for all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles can also result in immediate drivability problems. Some Control Trac equipped vehicles in 4Auto mode may exhibit a shutter on acceleration and/or a noise from the front driveline and transfer case while driving. Some all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles may exhibit axle windup or binding while driving. Some four-wheel drive vehicles (manual or electronic shift) with a two-wheel drive mode may refuse to shift "on the fly" into 4x4 Auto or 4x4 High at highway speeds.

Rotating Tires

Because the front and rear tires of all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles perform different duties while accelerating, braking and cornering, tire rotation is important to even out, and maintain equivalent treadwear of all of the vehicle's tires to minimize potential driveline stresses.

If the vehicle is equipped with a matching road wheel and full-sized spare tire, they should be integrated into the vehicle's rotation pattern at the first tire rotation. This will allow all five of the vehicle's tires to share in the workload and wear at similar rates. In the event that a single tire is damaged and has to be removed from service, this will allow the tread depth equivalent spare tire to be used with the remaining three tires.

If the spare is not integrated into the vehicle's tire rotation pattern, it will not match the tread depth of the four worn tires on the ground when called into service. Additionally, if a single tire is replaced by the full size spare tire, hopefully the new replacement tire can remain as the spare tire until the other four tires have worn out and need to be replaced.

Replacing Pairs of Tires or Individual Tires

There are several suggestions that have been offered to drivers who are replacing pairs or individual tires on their four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. Some vehicle manufacturers recommend that all tires maintain the same rolling radius and circumference, while others suggest that all tire circumferences remain within 1/4- to 1/2-inch of each other. Other vehicle manufacturers recommend that all four tires remain within 2/32-, 3/32- or 4/32-inch of each other, or within 30% of each other in relative remaining tread depth.

Regardless of the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations, the least stressful application is when all four tires are the same tire brand, tread design and equivalent tread depth.

Before buying pairs or individual tires for all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles, drivers should read their vehicle's owners manual or contact the dealer's service department for confirmation of their specific vehicle's requirements.

Matching Tires By Shaving Them to Maintain Equivalent Tire Tread Depths

What does a driver do if one tire has to be removed from service when it and the other three tires have already worn to two-thirds to one-half of their original tread depth? Simply installing one new tire runs the risk of drivability problems or expensive driveline damage. Replacing the other three partially worn tires along with the damaged tire significantly increases the cost.

Tire Rack can provide a solution by matching the tread depth of the replacement tire to the tread depth of the partially worn tires that will remain on the vehicle by removing tread rubber from a new tire on a specialized machine that operates as a tire lathe. While this may seem counterintuitive, the value of the mileage sacrificed by the one replacement tire is considerably less than the cost of rebuilding worn driveline components.

Tire Rack has offered a tire shaving service that has been primarily used for preparing competition tires for racetrack use. This same service can also be used to remove tread rubber from new pairs or individual street tires used on four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles to allow them to match the remaining tread depth of the other partially worn tires that will remain on the vehicle. In addition to providing equivalent tread depth to eliminate driveline stress, shaved tires will also better match the traction and handling qualities of the remaining worn tires.

While the cost of our street tire shaving service will range from $25 to $35 for each tire, it is significantly less than the cost of unnecessarily replacing the remaining two or three good tires with lots of mileage still available from them.

Here are recommendations from some of the manufactures that Tire Rack currently serves for matching the tires used on their four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. Additional recommendations from other Original Equipment Vehicle Manufacturers is pending.

Audi As published in their vehicle owner's manual, "rolling radius of all 4 tires must remain the same" or within 4/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.
Porsche Cayenne within 30% of the other tire on the same axle's remaining treadwear.
Subaru Within 1/4-inch of tire circumference or about 2/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.

Then you can read some more here at the bottom of the page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_rotation

or here

http://askville.amazon.com/replace-tires-AWD-car/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2651049

or here

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=207437

Not everybody lives off mommy and daddies trust fund money and dont want to or cant replace parts unnecessarilly or just get another car when they fuck one

This is great information Zammo. I didn't have time to read the whole thing but if what you're saying is accurate maybe a mod could put this info into a sticky in the "wheels and brakes" section or "general tech and maintenance"? I think a lot of people could benefit from this info

[delvin]

Well there ya go OP, if you an get funds together maybe you could have the rears or fronts shaved to match.

Your car is gonna be so tits when it's on the ground and set-up. Great work young man :beer:

And ya screw Internet bullies (why does the iPhone capitalize Internet?) do what you do playa

[Capt. Obvious]

I'm really glad that you're able to scour the internet for information on a topic you don't actually know anything about. AWD systems in cars are designed to handle different rotating diameters and are quite capable of handling the "excessive heat" caused by slight variations in tire diameters.

As an example, per Audi factory manuals the torsen differential is able to handle 30+ miles of locked wheel towing (although it is not advised when it can be avoided). Yes, that means towing the car with the front (or rear) wheels locked while the other two spin. Using your 225/45/17 example (a factory sized tire on several Audi models, by the way), that's over 25,000 rotations of the tires in a single event. And that's not a slight rotational difference from front to rear, that's a 100% rotational difference from front to rear. If we were talking about staggered tires with a 3% rotational difference, you'd have to drive 825,000 miles to equal the same amount of "wear and tear" that you subjected the differential to during the towing. Ever heard of of center diff or viscous blowing out an AWD car? Not very often, because they're pretty tough (exception: BMWs Xdrive because it sucks).

The point I'm trying to make is that having minor rotational variations between tires is normal and expected on AWD cars, and they are engineered with that in mind. A 1-3% difference in rotating diameter from front to rear will not cause excessive wear on your differential/viscous coupling or magically cause it to fail prematurely. If you're still concerned, change your differential fluid once a year for extra piece of mind.

Long story short, if you properly match staggered tires, extra wear on your drivetrain is a non-issue. I'm not telling you this is the gospel and you must do what I say, I just want you to be properly informed on the matter when making your decision on what tires/wheels to run.

If you want to do something like shave your tires to make everything match exactly then by all means do it, it certainly isn't going to hurt anything. However, with as much camber as you plan to run on your car, you're going to eat through rear tires in comparison to the front so they're only going to be the same diameter for a couple thousand miles. Food for though.

[Capt. Obvious]

Not everybody lives off mommy and daddies trust fund money and dont want to or cant replace parts unnecessarilly or just get another car when they fuck one

Really, trust fund?

[mshriver]

Sounds like the answer lies somewhere between what Capt. Obvious and ZammoTheChoppa are saying. OP should do his own research on the AWD system on his car. Its possible that it could be as forgiving as Audis system or it could be completely stubborn and not allow for the tread to be different. I know that if you try to tow a Subaru with the front wheels off the ground in the same way Capt. O described as fine on an Audi, your center dif will be dead after no time at all. A member on a Subaru forum just had his car towed on a dolly with the rear tires on the ground for one mile and it ruined his dif.

[PJ Prendergast]

Hey dude, just checking out your build here.

1) Ollie rules and I love his yellow sideways lemonbread-looking car



2) It's best to just ignore the people who give you a hard time on the internet. Most forums take things too seriously and lose sight of the fact that modification is about freedom of expression and pushing the limits of performance, Not being some mister bossy-pants cunt swatch on an internet forum

3) With the new wheels your cars going to look sick. Why is it you're so opposed to rolling fenders though?

4) can we get some shots of the test fit wheels on the car from a distance? The pictures you uploaded are a tease haah

the only reason i'm opposed to rolling the fenders on this specific car is because that inner lip adds strength to the fender so it doesn't crinkle like a soda can when someone leans up on the car haha i'll probably have to a little in the rears.

i didn't get much work done this weekend but i'm going back home on the 24th. i got my spacers and the front test wheel i have looks sexy and thanks, i loveeee your build and i ordered some of your stickers btw haha

thanks to everyone else for the information! it's a lot of info to take in, and it sounds like if i can get the closest difference possible and maybe rig up a tranny cooler i should be set!

.....besides the fact that my mommy and daddy aren't fortunate enough to own a trust fund and buy parts for me, i am however fortunate that my dad wanted to restore this car with me and i love it, but i'm paying 100% my own way on any other cars i'll own

these are the only 3 pics i took over the weekend. the camber wasn't adjusted in these at all, and when i slid my top mounts over it's nearly flush. i'll try and get more up when i'm home next!







sorry for an even bigger tease haha

[PJ Prendergast]

here's a photoshop i had done on here on some works haha

[244Brick]

I like it!! but IMO it needs bigger lips on the wheels

[Yogi_Bear]

I like it!! but IMO it needs bigger lips on the wheels

x2 this man knows what he is talking about

[PJ Prendergast]

in the photoshop or the wheels im gonna run? i wish the fronts had more but they sit so perfectly as of now! and the rears already poke way too much for any more lip haha someday i'd love to find the matching 2 wheels to my old racing hart c5's that came on the car when i first got it. they're like 17x7.5 or something lame but i absolutely love them

[244Brick]

Well i was speaking on the behalf of the picture, but what wheels are you going to run? I think you should get the highest offset wheels that you can fit w/o hitting the inner fender well, then fill the space with lip until its flush in the front with poke in the rear

[PJ Prendergast]

i'm running the 18x10's up front and 18x12's out back, which is already un-heard of in the 3/S community haha i forget the offsets, but the backs have alotta poke :p

[244Brick]

yeah i just thought you was switching to the VS's. I like the wheels thats currently on there nao, but maybe with smaller tires. what sizes are you running on the 18x10/12s?