My Lowly Opinion

[Oxer]

Although my .02c doesnt mean much, Im going to throw it into the mix regardless.

Paul, Sean and all those who may read this with the mindset that S|W is/has sold out due to sponsorships or homepage content, you need to read what I have to say.

If it wasnt for Mike starting this forum back in the day, I would never had traveled to America and actually met you guys in person. This place was what my life needed, a place that explained what it was that I was and have been so interested in for years. When I signed up, SW was still prodominantly a BMW based forum. I came on here with a civic and a bunch of ideas.

2 years later I am in a Tattoo parlour with Mike, C Hutch and Jeremy getting the Pentagon engraved into my skin.

Standard to SW's nature, A lot of people will never understand that, But I can proudly say that no matter what I will always support SW, not because of who sponsors it or how much money people percieve to be associated with it, but because the people behind the scenes haven't changed. Life gets busy, sometimes people dont have time to keep in touch and make a phone call or chat online or whatever. But just because life becomes more intense doesnt automatically mean that the person has changed, Only your perceptions will.

I will never own a Bagged Lamborghini, nor will I ever (At this point) be able to afford a $10k set of wheels, but that doesnt change where I think this forum is heading.

Just a year ago, Hundreds of people started posting up stickerbombed buckets of shit on here, Trying to fit into the scene, and I know that actually turned a lot of people who were here in the begining away as they didnt want to be associated or lumped into the same category. But to say a bagged lambo on HRE vintage series wheels is selling out or changing the direction of the forum is rubbish. In saying that I would rather see big dollar exotics being built the way we would do them if we could afford them, rather the rusted out civics on rotas with stickers all over it.

People will always change. Circumstances will always change aswell. But I can whole heartedly say that Andrew, Ben and Mike have nothing but the best intentions with where SW will go. I wouldnt be as involved with it if I didnt believe that.

My plans have never changed. Nor have my goals or intentions. S|W hasnt either, its still full of BMW fanboys like you Paul

[Zayan]

what beautiful responses from mike and andrew

Fixed.

[oprahhwinfreyy]

what a beautiful response from mike

[Rally]

I think he just explained that it wasn't about "business succes" to them at all.

It's not about business success for us. It's simply about providing a community and media outlet for the automotive and stance scene that we love so much. We want it to be the best it can be, but that's out of passion rather than a misdirected drive for "success".

Some wheel companies open a new thread in Showroom everytime they put a wheel on a car. Although you are not the one causing this, this may be something worth looking into as I feel these are the kind of things that make people feel like SW is getting more and more commercial.

As noted in Mike's response, we truly do care about the community and members here. We value your opinions and always consider them when making decisions. We appreciate and welcome any feedback. Please always feel free to let us know when you see something go down that makes you feel uncomfortable here in your online "home".

Your point is valid and it's something we've dealt with before. We'll look into it and have a discussion with the companies that practice this way. We always try to keep the advertisement stuff in the vendor sections where it ought to be. We try catching everything when it happens, but we always appreciate when others point out the stuff we miss.

Thank you for the feedback. It is sincerely taken to heart.

[Zayan]

@ M.Burroughs: I know we are not on the best terms with each other, but I have a question to ask.
If you don’t mind sharing it with public, what takes 14 hours a day (8am-10pm) to keep this place running?

PS: Not trying to pick a fight or start anything, just curious!

<3 your straightforwardness. lol

[PavelK313]

@ M.Burroughs: I know we are not on the best terms with each other, but I have a question to ask.
If you don’t mind sharing it with public, what takes 14 hours a day (8am-10pm) to keep this place running?

PS: Not trying to pick a fight or start anything, just curious!

[Zayan]

I think he just explained that it wasn't about "business succes" to them at all.

True, but some success is necessary since it is indeed their full-time job.
They are bettering their community through this type of "business success".
After all, their business is the community.

[DDM]

I think he just explained that it wasn't about "business succes" to them at all.
anyway Mike, it's great to see your reaction to this so quickly. And I understand what you're saying. I guess it's just really hard to find a compromise between all these things.
I do feel that some companies are advertising to hard though. Some wheel companies open a new thread in Showroom everytime they put a wheel on a car. Although you are not the one causing this, this may be something worth looking into as I feel these are the kind of things that make people feel like SW is getting more and more commercial.
I still really appreciate you though, Mike and all the others, and I think we all do. I never realised how much work goes into keeping a forum up and running...

[Zayan]

Just read what Mike said as I was clicking my "Post Quick Reply" button after typing up my quick response lol.
Loved it Mike!
Your POV is refreshing and makes me proud to say this is the forum in which I am most actively on.
It's actually the first thumbnail on my "most visited" home page on my Google Chrome hah.



Here is what I wrote before reading his post:



"I'm feeling this thread a lot.
Well, it just so happens to be that Stanceworks is the business/job/career of Ben Terry, M.Burroughs, etc.
They are furthering their business success by creating ties with HRE and distributing products such as driving gloves.
At least they are promoting classic designs on both accounts. We all know it would be dope to have a set of some genuine driving gloves from the earlier ages or the authentic version of the designs which that new HRE line is basing them off of.
I support what they are doing as long as they keep it in moderation and have a healthy balance between their success as well as their tie with the community. (which they are doing due to the fact that their success is based off their ties with the community)
At least they aren't going toward the "HELLAFRESH" route or anything. That would be devastating."

[M.Burroughs]

Paul,

3 years ago, a website was created as an escape from the monotonous single-minded paths of modification so many fellow "enthusiasts" were expecting us to follow. StanceWorks, at it's heart, has been a community, a family, of people with similar interests, and has acted as an outlet for everyone's own expression of car modification.

While you may feel disheartened and "left behind" at the introduction of higher-end goods such as driving gloves, it's all part of a natural evolution to separate ourselves from our "competition". Everything we do, whether it is building cars, or crafting gloves for the enthusiast, is done with the absolute best of our abilities. StanceWorks has always taken pride in everything it produces, digitally and physically. While we could sell $10 shirts produced on Hanes blanks with single-color prints, that simply wouldn't in StanceWorks's heart.

The idea of "selling out" is something we've fought since the day this began. As I told Ben and Andrew at the start of our adventure, "the moment this becomes about money and not about the community, I quit." Maybe your frustrations are misguided, as I can assure you that the StanceWorks we've grown in to today has had nothing short of every one of you in our mind and hearts.

Take a look at the sponsors of StanceWorks: While the list may appear long, take note of the number of people that are here pushing product in your face. That number is very few. Each company listed down the side of this website is one we've formed an in-depth relationship with, one that we know can cater to our community with quality and enthusiasm.

I couldn't count the dollars we've decided to give up as a team in the name of continuing what we consider the best community we're capable of. Every day, a new email arrives in my inbox by companies wanting in on the action; begging for the opportunity to put products in your face. And while we could easily succumb to the idea of lining our pockets with green paper and letting our community fend for itself, it's simply something we'd never do.

I think many fail to realize that StanceWorks has become a full-time job for us. Simply keeping this place ticking is a massive undertaking; and while from the outside it may just seem like "a website", to keep the gears turning has required us to re prioritize the way we live.

Many may assume we're living a particularly lavish lifestyle, but the truth is we're on budgets just as anyone else is. We're not rolling in cash from StanceWorks. In fact, far from it. We're scraping by just like any college student with a part time job. Everything we do comes from a passion to contribute to a scene and community we love. I can say without a doubt that you, Paul, have made more money in the last month than I have in the past year. Yet I (and Andrew and Ben) wake up every day with a smile and excitement to put in our effort to spread a message and mindset we truly believe in.

StanceWorks is not just another blog or another forum. This is who we are, it is what we do. And while you may see a Lamborghini on $10,000 wheels on our homepage, perhaps take the chance to read our motives behind such a feature.
I beg you to read anything else we've posted. Allow me to help point the big features in order of most recent:

• We've announces a show that, while upscale in nature, invites anyone with any budget to come and participate. There's no reason for us to throw a car show in a parking lot; we put enthusiasm in to what we do, and we've decided there's no reason car shows have to be about "swag". Why not have a car show at a beautiful location with a mature manor?
• We've welcomed on a new photographer with an artistic vision and the mindset of an enthusiast- not just someone who wants his photos featured on a blog.
• We featured Nic Foster's car, one built by a man and his wife in their own garage, and explained the friendship and relationships that car spawned.
• We've shown what we're up to, including me building a car from scratch with the smallest budget imaginable.
• We featured a VIP Infiniti built by young man, just 18 years old, who didn't cut corners.

I can continue going, but I'm hoping you see the point. Everything we do, every minute we spend here on the website, is something we feel worth sharing.

If you think our partnerships with one high-end company is enough to discredit our hard work, I beg that you take a look at the entire picture. While we may support HRE, an expensive wheel company that produces some of the highest-quality goods in the industry, we also support Rotiform, a company that offers quality cast alternatives for $200/wheel. Or for those who want to purchase from the used market, we offer Apartment 9 wheels. And there's even our own used wheel classifieds section, one of the best in the scene. We seek to cater to the entire community, whether it be a 16-year-old on a serious budget income or a 30-year-old with cash to spend.
We're here to celebrate quality and good names in the industry, and I don't know how much more transparent we can make that.

At the end of the day, we're in this for you guys. Not ourselves, but the community we have grown to love. Every day is a 12-hour work day just to make this operation work. It's not self-sustaining, it's not glamorous, and it's certainly not easy. But its something we take pride in, and it's something we have great passion towards.

Tomorrow will be another day, where at 8am, we will enter the StanceWorks office, and we will work diligently to keep doing the best we can at everything we do, where we will support the companies that make a positive difference in the industry, and where we will do everything we can to see that quality and enthusiasm are never forgotten in this community. And then at 10pm we'll close our doors, and we'll do it all over again.

[Alexander]

interested in what they have to say...

+1.

[Francois Dillinger]

interested in what they have to say...

[Rally]

Now its all put together in one consolidated place. Sad thing is, the audience you are trying to get in front of, probably doesn't even browse these parts any more.

This is not the case. We've read it and are currently writing up our personal feelings on the manner. While we are busy and don't post as often as we used to, we still check the forums regularly and retain the same passion as day one.

This is a community we care about. You guys are friends that we care about. We're putting together our thoughts and feelings, so we appreciate your patience while we type it up.

[LuckyBoyOne3]

I want to stress this is not an attack. This is a call to return to the roots.

[SeanDub]

Preach on, all the OG's are thinking it and several have hinted at or blatantly said it.

Now its all put together in one consolidated place. Sad thing is, the audience you are trying to get in front of, probably doesn't even browse these parts any more.