My Lowly Opinion

[Dubmd]

I know you guys have never met me, but I did go to SOWO last year and introduced myself to Jeremy's friend, Dubmd (who shrugged me off ) and some pretentious volvo kid.

haha sorry man, im usually a really nice guy!
i **** to say that i was probably drunk, but i was that whole trip.
next time ill say hey!

[LuckyBoyOne3]

Seriously Paul? What has changed so drastically? I think you’re letting your opinions be formed by other people who aren’t happy with stanceworks for business reasons. I know your friends with the guy who organized Tailored. I know that show was not up to par for what people expected and I know there has been bad blood and shit talking ever since. Don’t let that lead you to making threads that attack these guys for selling out because it’s straight up horse shit...

I need to pull this apart... and I will address them in order of which they were presented.

I have addressed multiple times what I think is the issues at hand, maybe "selling out" isn't the term I should have chosen to use since denying vendors sponsorship seems to be the main argument. Maybe if people did not center their arguments and focus on that single point, they would see there is much more to read in the initial thread. Secondly my opinion has nothing to do with Tailored, which until now wasn't mentioned. The guys that put on Tailored have no bad blood, and have never said a single ill word toward or about S|W... they love these guys have had nothing but positive things to say about S|W and would like to work with S|W in the future. And who is to say the show wasn't up to par? Were you there? Every time I go to a meet, show, or gtg I am asked if we are doing Tailored again, and there is always disappointment when the answer is no. I had an amazing time, as did everyone I have talked to afterwards. I am the one that was disappointed in S|W participation in the show, but that is a conversation for another time. And your final point is ridiculous, this in no way an attack one person or group of people this is something that has been on the words of the community, so I chose to address it on a public forum, for public debate.

[SeanDub]

I voiced my personal opinion on how I felt things were going, Mike came back and posted his point of view on the entire "situation". We obviously have some personal issues to iron out so I’ll save my words for when we can speak personally or on the phone.

Olek, you're right they are letting us do something and haven’t asked for a penny which is awesome and we definitely do appreciate it, and maybe because of that my response was out of line.

The point that I was trying to get across was simply that things are very different, people who were once considered great friends of mine don't come across that way anymore. Also that, maybe selling out is the wrong way to put it, but that it feels like they have forgotten who the target audience really is, or perhaps their targets have shifted. I didn’t mean to insult anyone but more bring up a discussion. Because everyone is so invested in their work, some feathers were ruffled and I get it, its normal.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. SW has said they will try to be more involved and we understand their day to day more. Let’s cut the shit and go back to taking over the world.

[Rally]

The point that I was trying to get across was simply that things are very different, people who were once considered great friends of mine don't come across that way anymore. Also that, maybe selling out is the wrong way to put it, but that it feels like they have forgotten who the target audience really is, or perhaps their targets have shifted.

I think "broadened" rather than "shifted" would be more appropriate. We still care about you guys and all the SW friendships we have forged in the past year. That will never change.

You have to realize that this past year was a busy and jam-packed year for us. Ben, Mike, and I packed up all of our things, said good bye to our close friends from home, said good bye to our families, and moved out to California to centralize StanceWorks in the center of the aftermarket automotive industry. Ever since that move, we've been working non-stop to bring you guys this content, hold these events, and provide the products that people are requesting from us.

Does it mean I don't get to see my friends as often as I'd like? Does it mean that I don't spend as much time with my family? Has it cut into my ability to to take spontaneous road trips? Has it taken away from my time on the forums? Absolutely, but I make those sacrifices because I love StanceWorks and I love the people that make up StanceWorks. While I might not see everyone as much as I'd like, when I get to shoot the shit with people like Olek at h2o, or I arrive at SoWo to see the SW crew hanging out....it's like a family and that makes it all worth while. That first year was a growing year and it took a lot of dedication to get everything set up and get it running. This year we will be making our rounds to various events and we hope that we can see you and all of our other friends out there. We'll sit down, grab some drinks, and resume car discussions as if we had never split ways. That is the special SW connection and that will never go away.

[jdel]

I think "broadened" rather than "shifted" would be more appropriate.

I'm newer, spend most of my time in RT and lurk the rest of the forum. "Shifted" would absolutely be the word to use. Maybe you guys don't see it that way, but you went from cars built in a garage to talking up shipping a Lambo to shoot a feature on HRE wheels. None of that displays "broadened".

You guys have to understand that you are moving from a time when the big threads were things like the cross-country trip (I know I've read that thread multiple times) and threads about Rusty and other "regulars" to cars that no longer even seem like they belong. It just seems like the focus is on different things now. All those other sites that have been mentioned have no problem throwing cookie cutter builds and bought vehicles on the front page. What has always made this site different and one of the reasons why after all the shit I get for even considering this to be one of my favorite sites are the things you considered to be worthy of a feature. Anyone (with money) can take HRE wheels, put them on a Lambo and call it a day. You guys have always seemed to be above that kind of situation, and now it seems like there is a shift because that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Rally]

I'm newer, spend most of my time in RT and lurk the rest of the forum. "Shifted" would absolutely be the word to use. Maybe you guys don't see it that way, but you went from cars built in a garage to talking up shipping a Lambo to shoot a feature on HRE wheels. None of that displays "broadened".

You guys have to understand that you are moving from a time when the big threads were things like the cross-country trip (I know I've read that thread multiple times) and threads about Rusty and other "regulars" to cars that no longer even seem like they belong

I guess where I'm confused is that within the last 2-3 pages we have Nic Foster's e21, Austin's y33, and the Australian 2002 (and the list goes on and on as you look back through the pages).All of those cars are garage built cars built by long term members of this forum. Nic's e21 DEFINES garage built. He, his wife, and his father built that thing from the ground up in the comfort of his own garage. I ask that you have a look through our recent articles before judging the blog based on only 2 articles.

In about 2 hours, when the sun starts setting, Mike I and will be heading out to shoot another garage built mk4...and there is an never ending list of member built cars on our to-shoot list. That hasn't (and never will) changed

Just an example, here are the cars that we've covered in the past 5 pages. I think you'll find that nearly all of them are member-built, reasonable builds. Do they have a lot of blood and sweat put into them or a lot of time invested in them? Absolutely, but that's what makes them special. That's what makes them worthy of the spotlight. At the end of the day, they are still built by the members of this community and they are still built with the same passion that we all share.

There's only one unachievable car in the bunch, and that's the lambo that everyone seems so focused on. Take a step back and look at the other content we've posted over the past 2 months:

[skrapez]

I personally don't understand the up-rise about the lambo. lol

[Alexander]

No matter how this forum & community grows or changes I will always come here. Nothing else offers such a wide selection of featured cars, build threads and useful info while still focusing on the community aspect. I spend time everyday to make sure I am up to date with my favourite builds or just seeing what's new.

All of this is why I first joined and why I love SW.

[M.Burroughs]

No matter how this forum & community grows or changes I will always come here. Nothing else offers such a wide selection of featured cars, build threads and useful info while still focusing on the community aspect. I spend time everyday to make sure I am up to date with my favourite builds or just seeing what's new.

All of this is why I first joined and why I love SW.

Thanks Alexander. This post means the world to me (and I am sure the same goes for Andrew and Ben). It's what we've been after since day one. Your support makes it worth it.

[TheNeek]

That brown E21 is so played out.

[Dr.AK]

I'm sitting here, reading this thread and I really don't know what to think about this. I really don't get the drama surrounding the topic.

Yes, SW has evolved from what it started as. It's grown to a more 'serious' state, nothing bad about that. Yes, of course they have turned it into a kind of business - anyone with the same opportunities and the same passion / drive would have done the same. I know I would have. This doesn't mean they're 'sell outs' or have lost their driving passion about stanced cars or anything like that.

At the core it's still the same to me. On this note, I also don't see why anyone gets so hung up about the Lambo - Stanceworks had a hand in the wheel design, apparently, so it's only logical (and pretty awesome) that they get involved with 'building' fitting 'demo car' and also showing it to the world. Nothing wrong with that. Just the fact that it's a Lambo of all things seems to get people's panties in a twist - I'm sure if it was something of a more 'reasonable' or 'affordable' supercar, like some kind of Porsche, the outcry wouldn't be half as big. Hell, HRE is one of the sponsors, it's only natural that something like this would sooner or later happen and end up as a blog post. Not sure why people are so upset.

The blog posts are pretty much always interesting, but in truth it's the forums where the 'magic' happens as it were. They've stayed pretty much the same. There was a time when the bords were flooded with bandwagoners with stickerbombed rustbombs, but nowadays it's a pretty evened out bunch with mostly clean cars and level headed people (apart from very few examples).

It's the people who make the site what they are. I love the forums - yes, there's sometimes some retarded bickering; you get that everywhere where lots of unique personalities meet, it's unavoidable - they're some of the most open and unique message boards I've been on. As long as they're active, I'll be here. In fact, I'm planning a trip to the UK (mostly because it'll be a bit cheaper than one to the US and also because I'll be able to take my Touring) this summer - just because I want to meet as much of the SW people as I can.

Mike, Ben, Andrew and all others involved - in my opinion you're doing a good job. Even if I may sound like a nut-swinger saying this.


/edit: Pretty much what Moose said. He's just a tiny bit more eloquent than me, it seems.

[Moose]

I don't understand the complaint as a whole. The site started off small, and it was an awesome community then and still is to this day. I have been involved in various ways since the beginning, and have seen Stanceworks evolve into something far greater than it was when it started. It is now a company that has partners in small one man companies like Dorbitz Designs, and Adam's Rotors, yet also is paired with big names like Airlift and HRE. This is a site that was originally started as a way to get away from the people at bimmerforums who thought slamming cars and fitting wide wheels was a joke, and "ruined cars".

"Stance" is not a new movement by any means, but just in the past few years has become a widespread phenomenon. I have seen my fair share of people come and go, mostly who were just intrigued by the trend, but not actually passionate about it. In that same regards there are still the people who I have seen here from day 1, still as into this as ever, and still spending the greater part of their days wrenching on their cars. The small community is still going strong, and the groups of friends wrenching on their cars is still the basis of why we do this. I have spent more of my nights than I can even count at friends houses working on our cars, whether it be putting in a motor that doesn't belong, or perfecting the ride height and wheel fitment. That is still going on to this day, and is not going to ever stop. The core of the community is still here, Stanceworks has just had a chance to expand, and make itself into something more than it was before. The Lamborghini is something that absolutely deserves a spot on the home page, just as much as Nic's e21. The look that we all love so much has gained enough widespread appeal that a person with a $250,000 super car has taken an interest in it. That is fucking cool in itself, considering this was all seen as a joke 3-4 years ago. Did the owner of that car wrench on it himself? No, likely not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be displayed.

I personally love the merchandise that SW/Lowly Gentleman has put out, and am not quite sure what the issue there is. I would much rather see high end products like the leather wallets and driving gloves pair along side the core t-shirts than the bullshit other companies put out. The SW/LG products are often times free of any major branding, where as the StanceNation and Canibeat products just make you into a walking billboard, from their shirts, down to their shitty lanyards and bottle openers and other various junk. Have you guys complaining about that ever stopped to ask yourself what you would have done differently?

I am close friends with Mike, and also know Andrew and Ben well, I have seen all these decisions come into play over the years to form what Stanceworks is today. I see why each piece of the puzzle was chosen, and it all makes sense to me. It is damn cool to see the forum a kid from Tennessee started become what it is today, and I don't think it has sold out in any sense of the phrase. There have simply been opportunities taken that will allow what we are all passionate about to further itself in the automotive world, and continue to be taken more seriously. It is easy to step back, and complain about how have things have changed, without considering why they have. It would be disappointing if this was still a small website, with a small community, and was kept that way simply to not try and change the way things were, as massive amounts of opportunities would have been passed up. Quite frankly put, I believe the main cause for the complaint is the fact that many of the "OG" people who used to be relevant, no longer are, mostly due to the fact they have not produced anything new as of late. You can't expect your BMW dropped on wheels to stay exclusive or unique forever, especially if you haven't done anything new in years. The way I have seen it, many people produced a car that got them the attention they wanted, then pulled away, and the community evolved on without them. It seems as if those of you who pulled away are unhappy with how things have progressed, but unless you were there putting your input into how things were progressing, you don't really have a say in it. If you have some proposal on how you would do things differently from here, I am sure Mike/Andrew/Ben would be happy to hear it. You should have been voicing that as things were happening however, rather than after the fact. Most of you are close friends with the people who run Stanceworks, did you ever call and let them know that you were unhappy with something along the way? I just don't see a massive complaint thread with no solution offered as anything worthwhile, or necessary, you may as well have kept the opinion to yourself.

[LuckyBoyOne3]

That brown E21 is so played out.

Yeah... but that dude has a cool wife with a good taste in obscure cars.

[TheNeek]

Yeah... but that dude has a cool wife with a good taste in obscure cars.

In men too

I like being here. I will continue to do so.
I like that the build section usually has more people viewing than the showroom (that says something).
I like the relaxed atmosphere
I like that you get what you give around here.
I like seeing what Mike and the crew have done coming from humble beginnings.
I like that I'm the only one cracking jokes in this thread.
I like this place way too much to dislike anything. The line walked here has been done to the best of anyones ability. Wavering is a part of life, and we all do it. But keeping your feet on the path for the course taken is what's important. Kudos to S|W for doing it right.

I also like the number of "edited" posts... it shows we choose our words carefully.

[theseeker411]

My two cents doesn't matter much, but here goes:

I used to be a moderator on mye28.com, and I remember when Mike first posted up pics of Rusty, back before S|W had become reality. Easily 98% percent of the community there flat out ***** what Mike had done to his car, and that was before he rusted the thing and chopped the top. He and I used to have some lengthy discussions about it over AIM (god, remember that shit?), and I think he was a bit surprised that I was stoked on what he was doing, seeing as how I had been a part of the e28 crowd for a long time.

Some on mye28 said that the stance movement would be a trend, and that it'd be dead in a year. They still H.A.T.E everything associated with Mike, S|W, the Lowly Gentlemen, etc. But look at it now. 3 years on, and this site and community is hands down the best I've been around. I've made some amazing friendships with Mike, Jeremy, C-Hutch, etc because of this site. I'm better friends with the people I know from this site than with people I knew on mye28 for 6+ years. It blows my mind that I'm so close to the friends I've made here and I've only known the majority of them for less than 3 or so years. That's why this community and movement is more than a trend. That bond we've been able to forge in such a short time is nothing short of amazing. I didn't come to this site and abandon mye28.com because of the cars, or the blog. I'm here and will stay here because of the amazing people I've met here that share my passion of well done, ridiculously low cars.