1300 dollar brake job??!!!

[wheelfetish]

I
I never waited more than a week for broken tools from SnapOn, Mac or Matco. The difference is when you use them everyday you really can tell a difference. Just feel the ratchet in the big 3 verse craftsman. Small tweaks in wrenches that snap on makes then everyone else copies. It really does matter and is different.

The shop I helped out at had Snap On. The guy was there almost every day, he was also a friend of the owner of the shop. Then I wen't to college and guys broke their Snap On tools but the Snap On dude took forever to come by. I guess it really matters if the Snap On guy is in/around the area or if you have a good connection with him. It was just easier to buy Craftsman since sears is a five minute drive from where I was, plus the college i'm at ran out of kits before I got to mine. So I had to either buy Craftsman or miss a whole semester of classes. If I had the choice, I would have picked up a Snap On kit, but I didn't. Once I get the money i'm going to pick up a kit then use the Craftsman set at my house for small jobs.

[dinanm3atl]

god hourly rates have gotten ridiculous, 95/hr! I'd rather slice my penis off than pay 95/hr to some dude who didn't go to college. Maintenance on cars in NOT difficult, not 95/hr difficult. What the fuck is it with labor rates in this country.

It has already been said... but dude. Wow.

I think that part was pretty unnecessary. If you dont want to pay that much, then do the work yourself. There are a lot of people who do not want to or are afraid to learn how to work on their own cars.

Thanks Mike. After school, tools, testing and more it adds up quick and I was only working on cars in shops for about 5 years.

Tens of thousands for tools I got all my tools (craftman) for under 2k and I have more them most guys do. Besides special tools, witch most shops should supply for you, theres no way you NEED to spend tens of thousands of dolors for tools, especially if you just got out of college. Hell, even the guys who bought snap on products at my school only paid a little over 3k for all their tools.

Now if you own your own shop you have to fork out the big bucks for tools, but no where even close to tens of thousands of tools to just start out at a dealership or a indy shop.

Welcome to stanceworks btw.

So customers go to people based on what kind of tools they have? And since when did a Craftsman wrench fail to do the same job as any other kind of wrench? The only difference between Craftsman and Snap On is that Snap On pays a guy to come replace a tool (witch takes forever btw) and polishes them. Sure they look all fancy, but they do the same job as any other wrench on the market. I doubt costumers would care if you used a Craftsman tool over a Snap On tool. Most of the time they don't even know the difference or care about what tools are used. Just like you said in your above post, "Point is that if you do quality work, and deliver on all your promises the best clients will not only find you. . . they will pay what ever you ask." Not what kind of tools are used.

I never waited more than a week for broken tools from SnapOn, Mac or Matco. The difference is when you use them everyday you really can tell a difference. Just feel the ratchet in the big 3 verse craftsman. Small tweaks in wrenches that snap on makes then everyone else copies. It really does matter and is different.

For real with all the dick swinging. Brakes are an easy enough job do DIY. I've learned that yes you do pay for what you get and some things are better left to professionals.

It comes down to some people wanting the peace of mine for something like brakes. Are they easy? Yup. On most vehicles they are. With that said it is one of the most important if not the single most important item that needs quality parts that are PROPERLY installed.

Many BMW Indy shops will ONLY install BMW parts and they order them from the dealer. It means there is less margin for the shop on the parts to 'mark up and rip you off' but it means they know their clients will get BMW parts for their BMWs. This includes oil filters, brakes etc. That is how the shop worked that I was at.



When you get down to it the book time is probably 2 hours per corner. Maybe 1.5. So 8 hours at 95 dollars and you are already at 800 dollars and haven't bought a part. If you think it is cheap to purchase a shop, 4 lifts, buy all the specialty tools that allow you to do ANYTHING job that comes in... you are crazy. Then add in the insurance and paying the rent, utilities, buy all the consumables and the list goes on and on. 1300 is probably right. Most of the shops in Atlanta might even charge more. BMW dealer might charge that much per axle...

[Tuck&Poke]

I concede for my errors. I appologize.

edit: i just wanted to add that i have the utmost respect for technicians who take pride in there work and perform quality service. it does take a lot of training and dedication to get to that level and they deserve every dollar they make. My previous posts were not referring to that caliber of mechanic. I was talking about the people with little to no education who basically act as parts changers, like SOME of the ones that worked at my dealership, and other dealerships that i have had experience with that do hack jobs or dont do some of the work paid for by the customer. You should see the hack job of a recall they did on my fuel lines and heat shields. THATS what i dont appreciate. Hopefully i didnt offend you guys too much, i know the difference between good techs and bad and i do now the amount of schooling and training it takes to get to that level. My posts should have been a bit clearer. Again, sorry.

[aar0n.]

If you have a car that costs as much money as a 750, it only makes sense for maintenance and parts to be expensive for it. If you want to attempt a DIY job on a Ferrari or something like that to save some money, you probably can't actually afford that car.

Another way to look at it is like this: The Bugatti Veyron costs over a million dollars. Annual maintenance on it is about $300,000. Could you try and do it on your own? Sure, but it wouldn't make any sense to do that. Now I'm not saying a BMW 7 is the same as a Bugatti, but my overall point is that if the car is expensive, expect costs associated with that car to be expensive.

http://www.dupontregistry.com/AUTOS/BLOG/post/2010/01/20/Veyron-maintenance-tops-24300000-annually.aspx

[Neb]

So basically if you want quality break job, w/quality parts, done by a quality certified tech, w/quality tools, 130+ point inspection, and uses the "blue" coolant. Then you should expect to pay $1300, that sounds reasonable enough because we ARE talking about BMW. BUT....! If you are a person that likes to DIY (like me) and owns a shitty set of tools and isnt scarred to tackle a "break job" then your best bet may be to DIY and save some $$$. We've all heard it b4, u get what u pay for. To pay or not to pay.... That is the question or is it...? Good enough or Top of the line....?
Moving on.... Now please stop bickering, I dont care if your tool is bigger than his.

For real with all the dick swinging. Brakes are an easy enough job do DIY. I've learned that yes you do pay for what you get and some things are better left to professionals.

[Del Ghetto]

So basically if you want quality break job, w/quality parts, done by a quality certified tech, w/quality tools, 130+ point inspection, and uses the "blue" coolant. Then you should expect to pay $1300, that sounds reasonable enough because we ARE talking about BMW. BUT....! If you are a person that likes to DIY (like me) and owns a shitty set of tools and isnt scarred to tackle a "break job" then your best bet may be to DIY and save some $$$. We've all heard it b4, u get what u pay for. To pay or not to pay.... That is the question or is it...? Good enough or Top of the line....?
Moving on.... Now please stop bickering, I dont care if your tool is bigger than his.

[wheelfetish]

Plus, we don't pocket that $95/hour. We get a small percentage and the rest goes to the shop. I seen a clutch job on a 04 mustang, rated at 3.5 hours, take three people 2 days do complete the job because bolts were rusted, hard to get to, and other problems were encountered. Those techs only got paid for the rated time shopkey/all data rated the job at. Not to mention if you work at a dealership and the car is under warranty still, you get only half of whatever hours a car without warranty.

At least thats how it in around my area.

Have you ever seen the price per ASE test? They're not outrageously expensive, but not cheap. Something like $25-95 per test adds up when you have to take multiple ones every 5 years. Then theres special tools. When I took my bmw to a shop to replace the transmission, he needed 2 or 3 special tools to get the job done right. He didn't have them and decided it wasn't worth his money to spend hundreds of dollars to get them since he only use them one. I wouldn't go back to him for a job like that again. It takes money to keep yourself updated with tools. Im paying over $50,000 for two years in college just for the education. You have to spend money to make money in this career.

Then reading what bimmerteck said about all the tools vs quality, Im going to start investing in higher quality tools then Craftsman. Im going to be using my tools every day, why not spend the money, its well worth it.

Just my .2 cents.

After thinking, $1300 for a brake job on a 7-series isn't bad.

[Dutchy]

god hourly rates have gotten ridiculous, 95/hr! I'd rather slice my penis off than pay 95/hr to some dude who didn't go to college. Maintenance on cars in NOT difficult, not 95/hr difficult. What the fuck is it with labor rates in this country.

You clearly have no clue about what a tech goes through to be a tech. Not only do you do 3-4 years of trade school, once your licensed you continue to update yourself on the newest technology's by taking courses, reading books etc. I work at a VW dealer and have yet to start my year two of trade school, I'm already being sent to VW Canada for special training on our new cars and on how to use the 30,000 dollar testers to their best capability.

If anything, a mechanic will go to school more then alot of people in other professions, cars change every year, and we have to keep ourselves up to date to fix them.

I hope the dealer/shop you go to fucks you for all your worth when you have to bring your car to them because your immobilizer has turned on and you can't drive your car. Want to fix it yourself? go buy a 30k scanner and go nuts, I'm sure the immobilizer will lock you out because you don't have a GEKO code to get authorization.

D-bag.


ps. I went to school originally for elecrical mechanical engineering, did really well but didn't enjoy it. If you think mechanic's are stupid or lazy, you sir are very ignorant.

[Tuck&Poke]

The above statement speaks volumes about your integrity as an individual. That you would not report them for fraud is kinda sad really.

your basing my integrity on less then a year of working at a $7 an hour job where i was a parts puller because i didn't bitch to my bosses about a techs not flushing radiators, which i quit to continue going to college? Seriously? You dont see that as a little excessive? I havent made any personal attacks on anyone, yet you seem to continue to attack me.

My opinion on labor rates will not change. Plus, the tech doesn't even keep that. I don't think tech's get paid excessively, i think dealerships are making too large of a profit margin on labor. So chill out with the attacks, I'm not suggesting you get paid less.

I have a significant number of friends who are automotive technicians, so i have no vendetta against them.

[Bimmerteck]

So customers go to people based on what kind of tools they have? And since when did a Craftsman wrench fail to do the same job as any other kind of wrench? The only difference between Craftsman and Snap On is that Snap On pays a guy to come replace a tool (witch takes forever btw) and polishes them. Sure they look all fancy, but they do the same job as any other wrench on the market. I doubt costumers would care if you used a Craftsman tool over a Snap On tool. Most of the time they don't even know the difference or care about what tools are used. Just like you said in your above post, "Point is that if you do quality work, and deliver on all your promises the best clients will not only find you. . . they will pay what ever you ask." Not what kind of tools are used.

My first post was about keeping customers, my big investment in high quality tools, information and education is a large percentage of a customer's first impression and outwardly shows that I strive to be the absolute best technician I can possibly be. My torque wrenches are calibrated to within 2% of the torque value, they are accurate enough that the FAA would allow me to work on aircraft with them. What were your craftsman's calibrated to and who certifies it? Could you really trust them on a critical torque value such as a one time use titanium fasteners now used in some high end cars? Mt 4 channel recording lab scope with a 24 hour recording buffer will run circles around any electrical tester craftsman will sell you when trying to find an intermittent battery drain from a finicky control module. My FLIR camera setup can find an intermittent short under carpet before you can get the first seat out with your craftsman setup. My 24" long no offset box end wrenches can remove a guibo without dropping the heat shields or exhaust on several BMWs oddly enough Craftsman doesn't sell them, Metric thin wall spark plug socket for changing the plugs on an e28 m5 yep that's not sold at sears either and not in the local dealers' shop tools here either. My brake caliper pressure test set for finding temperamental hydraulic issues in old hoses again not sold at sears. My EM field detector for testing ring antenna around ignition switches, hell Snap-on doesn't even sell it (much less sears) I had to source it and the FLIR from a scientific equipment company. My S and C shaped metric thin wrenches can remove the starters when any other wrench would require the removal of several other components on several different BMW chassis. Taps and dies large enough to re-thread a damaged transmission output shaft, again, not in Craftsman's catalog. A vacuum pump capable of drawing a system down within 5min and keeping it there for an hour while the Dealerships AC machine is charging another customers car, yep you guessed it wasn't a craftsman. 1/4" drive #2 phillips for under dash work that will bite a screw when at an odd angle, call hazet b/c craftsman and snap-on missed it. A scanner with graphing and remote printing capabilities so you can staple the blatant evidence of the lazy 02 to the estimate while both dealer GT1s are tied up reprogramming vehicles, not a Craftsman. You may start to see a pattern. Sure a few tools are similar but the depth of the line is just not there, and if you compared wrenches to wrenches an thought it was expensive wait till snap-on is the only company with the tool in the US and they know it, as in the case of the blind inverse bearing puller which I had to pay very dearly for. Yep now that I think back about it having owned both, there wasn't much difference.

[Poon]

Again with the "I wouldn't let a Craftsman wrench touch my car" thing. Its the same as any other brand, if not better. Just because I payed $75 for my torque wrench vs. a $76494398 Snap On doesn't make it any better. I can still replace my tool whenever it needs replaced. And yes, Snap On tools break. I've seen 3 tools break in the past semester, all Snap On. And now the guys waiting for the Snap On driver to come replace his tool- and that happened 3 months ago.

Yes there is a difference. Craftsman wrenches spread, the prybars have poor quality plastic handles which break, and the wrenches slip when under heavy load. Of course this doesn't always happen, and of course it occasionally happens to snap on tools as well, but it happens FAR LESS with a quality tool. I'm speaking from experience.

When was the last time you sent your crafstman torque wrench out for calibration? My snap on torque wrenches get sent out every year. After speaking with the calibration shop who charge the same to do any torque wrench, be it snap on, craftsman or loolang made in China brand they say the few times they have been brought crafstman or mastercraft torque wrenches they have been extremely off in measurements, while the quality tools like snap on or mac have only been out of range by minimal increments.

Quality tools, for quality cars. It's like buying a BMW and putting monroe shocks in it. Do t right, do it once.

[wheelfetish]

Really, only $2k? There's no point buying craftsman or mastercraft tools if you're using your tools every single day. I've gone through too many shitty sets of prybars, wrenches, wratches that either break, spear or slip that can easily result in broken knuckles, fingers and sliced open hands. When your body is on the line, it's not worth it to risk cheap tools, especially when things are under high load.

This I consider a BASIC set of tools. If someone didn't have this set, I would't take my car to them. If they even considered using mastercraft or crafstman torque wrenches on my car, forget it.

Again with the "I wouldn't let a Craftsman wrench touch my car" thing. Its the same as any other brand, if not better. Just because I payed $75 for my torque wrench vs. a $76494398 Snap On doesn't make it any better. I can still replace my tool whenever it needs replaced. And yes, Snap On tools break. I've seen 3 tools break in the past semester, all Snap On. And now the guys waiting for the Snap On driver to come replace his tool- and that happened 3 months ago.

[Poon]

Btw, back to original post. Assuming it's an E38 ('94 to '01). All parts priced from Bav Auto.

Rotors front - $90 x 2
Rotors rear - $90 x 2
Mintex brake pads front - $60
Mintex brake pads rear - $40
Pad sensor wire front - $15
Pad sensor wire rear - $12

If he's a specialist he'll also use wurth copper paste anti-seize, and silicone lube rather than cram and jam the pads dry, but that usually gets covered under shop materials fee anyways.

Now that's about $487 USD. I assume he's buying from worldpac parts supply, which is one of the largest parts distributers in the US so he's probably paying a little bit more more that. I'd say probably around $550-$600. Ad tax on top of that (not sure what it is in your State, in CAD it's 12%) and it costs him close to $650 in parts. Of course he is going to mark up the brakes. If he's fair and doesn't want to rape you he'll probably charge you cost plus 25% rather than dealer list. That puts it at $813 for parts alone.

I assume you're shop tops up and checks all your fluids while the car is in, checks air pressure, does a 130+ point inspection and makes sure everything is safe for you as well, while the car is in. Doing the job for 3hrs at $100 an hour puts you at $1,113. Ad tax as well as shop material fees on top of that, and the price doesn't seem too out to lunch. Yes it's high, but not that crazy.

Get a quote from your local dealer just for shits and giggles.

[Poon]

Tens of thousands for tools I got all my tools (craftman) for under 2k and I have more them most guys do. Besides special tools, witch most shops should supply for you, theres no way you NEED to spend tens of thousands of dolors for tools, especially if you just got out of college. Hell, even the guys who bought snap on products at my school only paid a little over 3k for all their tools.

Now if you own your own shop you have to fork out the big bucks for tools, but no where even close to tens of thousands of tools to just start out at a dealership or a indy shop.

Welcome to stanceworks btw.

Really, only $2k? There's no point buying craftsman or mastercraft tools if you're using your tools every single day. I've gone through too many shitty sets of prybars, wrenches, wratches that either break, spear or slip that can easily result in broken knuckles, fingers and sliced open hands. When your body is on the line, it's not worth it to risk cheap tools, especially when things are under high load.

A set of prybars, screwdrivers, hammers, wrenches, wrachet wrenches, wratchets, sockets(1/4,3/8/1/2, along with impact sockets, extensions and swivel sockets,torx bits,allen bits, die grinder, cut off wheel, impact gun, drill,torque wrench (need two: low range for stuff like engine components, and second for high torque like wheels ect.), drill bits, air hammer, breaker bars,chisels, special socket set for high quality lug nuts, various pliers, tap and die set, and the list goes on.

This I consider a BASIC set of tools. If someone didn't have this set, I would't take my car to them. If they even considered using mastercraft or crafstman torque wrenches on my car, forget it.

I'm not a snob, but I believe if a car should be maintained, it should be maintained right, by someone who knows what they are doing and with the proper tools and equipment (german parts too). Yes, I also believe in Wurth.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't believe someone can graduate as an adequate tech buying snap on equipment and only spend 3k on snap on tools. Hell, my mastercraft tool chest was half price and still cost me $1,100

[wheelfetish]

To start out, no you don't need too much, but many of my customers would not hand their keys to you. You cannot do many of the things with a set of craftsman tools that you can do with a set like mine your welcome to come watch any time.

So customers go to people based on what kind of tools they have? And since when did a Craftsman wrench fail to do the same job as any other kind of wrench? The only difference between Craftsman and Snap On is that Snap On pays a guy to come replace a tool (witch takes forever btw) and polishes them. Sure they look all fancy, but they do the same job as any other wrench on the market. I doubt costumers would care if you used a Craftsman tool over a Snap On tool. Most of the time they don't even know the difference or care about what tools are used. Just like you said in your above post, "Point is that if you do quality work, and deliver on all your promises the best clients will not only find you. . . they will pay what ever you ask." Not what kind of tools are used.