My kingdom for Panasport C8-17! (G7-C8S)

[BenFenner]

It's mid-February, which means it's time for an update.
Rajeet says he's in Japan now, and will be back in the US tomorrow. My wheels are en route, and should arrive at the CA port any day now. He's telling me there are union workers at customs on strike so there may be major delays. He's promised to keep me updated.

I've gotten married since paying for these wheels. Let's hope they arrive before my first child.

[BenFenner]

their manufacturing is not state of the art but the careful steps they take rival those of most japanese makes in terms of weight and strength

I assume you're talking about Rota? Aren't they in the Philippines? How on earth do you imagine Rota wheels rival the weight and strength of most Japanese wheels? Enkei really is what Rota wants to be, but fails miserably at. And even then, Enkei is just a mid-grade Japanese wheel manufacturer. There are plenty like it who beat out Rota in every way. (Take a huge step up to Rays wheels and you really are out of the loop if you think Rota compares to those.)

As far as making copies, well that is entirely a sales/marketing issue right there. This is news to me because i buy originals when i can.

The more you learn, the more you'll realize there doesn't seem to be a single wheel in Rota's catalog that isn't a blatant copy of a previous, popular design.
Like I said, copying a design isn't the end of the world if you do it once in a while and actually improve it by offering sizes and configurations that weren't previously offered or improvements in other areas. However, Rota doesn't do any of their own wheel design as far as I know, and they don't improve on what they are copying. They make it worse, and make it cheaper (which I realize in one way is an "improvement"). I just prefer not to race to the bottom...




As for the Panasports, I got an e-mail update from Rajeet saying they expect their shipment from Japan to California to take place mid-February. Anyone else want to play the waiting game with me?

[z168]

I couldn't really justify paying for 5-6 wheels, so I'm stuck with four. If a center gets damaged, I'll just have to have it refurbished locally. If a rim gets damaged, those are easily replaceable, so I'm not too worried there. It's the centers that matter, and 4 of them should be plenty.

Rota made their money on the backs of countless other wheel designers, taking great wheels and copying their look with horrid build quality, poor materials, and questionable ethics. I've lost count of how many times I've seen full failures of Rotas when used on the track. This can't be news to you... Do some research on the topic. Respect your hobby.

As for the design copying, that alone isn't the end of the world. They just do it so often, and to the determent of our passionate hobby and don't make up for it anywhere else. They are a drain on the industry, steering us straight to the bottom.

There may be worse wheel companies out there, but I can't think of one.
Edit: Well, maybe XXR is worse. It's a toss-up.

OT: i had the chance to tour their factory and their manufacturing is not state of the art but the careful steps they take rival those of most japanese makes in terms of weight and strength. Of course that was 15 years ago and their manufacturing director was recruited by a manufacturer in Japan. So quality may have slipped. As far as making copies, well that is entirely a sales/marketing issue right there. This is news to me because i buy originals when i can.

[BenFenner]

Good info on the center bore. I was not aware but that makes perfect sense. Thanks.

[zoo]

Center bore is also an important measurement on wheel parts. You can source blanks(undrilled).
OZ uses 35 bolts, but not sure if that will match up.

[BenFenner]

My gut tells me it would be almost useless to try to get wheel halves from Panasport. It is like pulling teeth with them, and I believe it would not be worth it even if it could theoretically be possible for a handful of reasons I'm too lazy to detail here.

For rebuilding, it really comes down to being able to match the bolt pattern, right?
The 17" Panasports use a 35-bolt pattern. I will admit I've not seen this pattern for sale anywhere in the US, but I'm not deep in the 3-piece wheel scene. I'm familiar with most wheel places using a 40-bolt pattern for street wheels and something less for race wheels. Maybe 32-bolt? I've seen 17" Fikse wheels with a 20-bolt pattern...

I haven't done enough research, but when I was thinking I might be able to buy just centers from Panasport I had a couple boutique wheel makers telling me that if I could get the centers, they could almost certainly get me wheel halves that would work. I am counting on that promise, and if I do end up buying new halves (which is likely at some point) then I will report back with details on how that was managed.

Those are purty.

Wait until you see the rears. The fronts are pretty boring. The rears have a much more prominent step and are much deeper.

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

Those are purty.

Do you know if they use any standard lip we can get here easily enough, or will you have to go back to Panasport if you want to rebuild?

[BenFenner]

I couldn't really justify paying for 5-6 wheels, so I'm stuck with four. If a center gets damaged, I'll just have to have it refurbished locally. If a rim gets damaged, those are easily replaceable, so I'm not too worried there. It's the centers that matter, and 4 of them should be plenty.

Rota made their money on the backs of countless other wheel designers, taking great wheels and copying their look with horrid build quality, poor materials, and questionable ethics. I've lost count of how many times I've seen full failures of Rotas when used on the track. This can't be news to you... Do some research on the topic. Respect your hobby.

As for the design copying, that alone isn't the end of the world. They just do it so often, and to the determent of our passionate hobby and don't make up for it anywhere else. They are a drain on the industry, steering us straight to the bottom.

There may be worse wheel companies out there, but I can't think of one.
Edit: Well, maybe XXR is worse. It's a toss-up.


Edit 2: A list of Rota wheels and the original designs they stole from.

Rota Attack = Gram Lights 57cz
Rota Auto X = SSR Type X
Rota Battle = Advan T5
Rota Bella = Voltec MS
Rota Boost = Advan RG 2
Rota Circuit 8 = Mugen MF8
Rota Circuit 10 = Mugen MF10
Rota D2 = Work Meiser S1
Rota DPT = Volk Racing CE28
Rota Flashback = Work Equip 03
Rota Flight = CPF Tune-R
Rota Formula = BBS CH
Rota G-Force = Advan RS
Rota Grid = Volk TE37
Rota Group N = Mugen RNR
Rota GT3 = Gab Sports
Rota J-Mag = Mugen M7
Rota JSPL = Work RSZ-R
Rota MGM = Mugen XJ
Rota MSR= Work RSB
Rota P1 = Work Emotion XD9
Rota P45= NISMO lmgt4
Rota Real Lite = Gram Lights 57 Maximum
Rota SDR = Prodrive PFF7
Rota SDX = Mugen GP
Rota Slipstream = Spoon Sports SW388
Rota Spectrum = Volk Racing RE30
Rota SS10 = Volk Racing ZE40
Rota Subzero = Racing Hart CP035
Rota SVN = Volk Racing RE30
Rota Tarmac 3 = Prodrive GC010
Rota Titan = WedsSport TC105N
Rota Torque = Work Emotion CR
Rota Track R = Sprint Hart CP-R
Rota WTC = 5Zigen ZR+520

[z168]

Wow you really love the minilite wheels. I hope you ordered a set of 6 or at least an extra 5th wheel just in case. They will be hard to replace

Why do you dislike rota btw?

[BenFenner]

Rajeet sent me an e-mail the day before Christmas letting me know the wheels have arrived at their Japanese subsidiary. They will let me know soon when I can expect them to ship to the US.
He sent a couple pictures of the fronts! The centers look unpainted, but I'm sure that's just the lighting.

[BenFenner]

Rajeet called me just now to say they are expecting the wheels to arrive to their Japaneses-side holding facility in about a week. Previously I'd asked about pictures of the damaged boxes (which none were taken) so Rajeet said this time if they had time they'd send me some pictures of the new boxes/wheels when they arrive in Japan.

Once the wheels arrive, they can figure out when their next shipment can carry them over to the US (California). So I should hear more news next week.

I've been looking for these wheels for 3 years now, and this order has been in for almost 6 months. It is nice to get good news.

[BenFenner]

The 3 weeks are up, so I called to see the status. I spoke with Rajeet's business partner.
The wheels are still being made, and progress is expected mid-to-late December.
I thought 3 weeks sounded overly optomistic so I wasn't expecting real progress.

I'll see how things are in around a month.

[BenFenner]

Rajeet from Mastermind/Apt. 9 Wheels called me back and gave me an update on my order. I'm told the wheels were produced and shipped to his intermediary in Japan. Upon arrival, two of the wheels were damaged in shipping. They are taking care of the return process and new wheels will be expedited and shipped. I'm to expect around a 3-week delay.

Back to the waiting game...

[BenFenner]

I've been speaking with Apt. 9 Wheels / Mastermind on Facebook and they seem encouraging. They want to talk over the phone about the details.
We've spoken on the phone now and they seem very helpful and enthusiastic about the idea. They claim they don't have to go through the US distributor and can order from Panasport directly in Japan and ship the wheels over themselves. They are looking into the possibility of getting the wheels new and to my desired specs. I am expecting an e-mail back from them in a few days.

Latest word from Rajeet Dalal this week is that they've contact Panasport of Japan and with my desired specs were given multiple options to choose from. I'd given them windows of allowable offsets for the front and rear of +35-40mm offset for the front and +10-20mm offset for the rear. Using the "CC" wheel senter with the most brake clearance up front, I have the option of +33 and +39 offset. I chose +39 to make sure I can add a spacer to clear the brakes if I need to. For the rear it sounds like they spec'd the "AA" (standard) wheel center which I've been fighting to try to get for the rears and is one of the main reasons the orgiginal negotiations took so long. They have the options of +10, +13, +17, and +20 for the rear. I chose the +10 option. if I want to go more aggressive I can later. Having the wheel centers is the most important to me at this point. I'm waiting on an e-mail from Rajeet with all of the specs and proposed options. They are also waiting to hear from Panasport for an ETA before they take payment. I might finally be getting these things!

I got a quote from Rajeet Dalal and all looks good. They have taken my credit card info and the order is going in. I'm being told to expect 13-16 weeks for shipment. Now, the waiting game.

I will update this as more happens.

It's been 17 weeks now since I placed my order, and I'm hoping to hear good things soon. If Apt. 9 Wheels will reply to my latest e-mail...

[BenFenner]

If you've been following along with my edits in post #10 you'll know I'm close to finalizing a deal and getting a new set shipped from Japan through Apt 9 Wheels.

I'm not counting my chickens yet, but I'm quite hopeful.