FaKe WhEeLs ArE FaKe

[07NJx355]

That fitment, though.





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amiright?

[cobrawannabe]

That fitment, though.





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amiright?

[mrx928]

I'm not going to sit and try to justify everything once again. Most of you are already arguing points I've already made. This has nothing to do with the cost of wheels. There are tons of cheap wheels out there if you can't afford 3pc BBSs.

No one is calling anything fake. I'm calling out replicas. No matter what kind of leg you think you have to stand on, your justification for supporting replica companies is a cheap attempt to justify your lack of standards and willingness to do "the right thing" and support good companies.

I've said time and time again that I think cheap wheels are great. There are a lot of people who can't afford expensive things. But that doesn't make it okay to support companies that are stealing designs from industry originators. No "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it.

You start off well, but then you end it with a personal attacks and name calling. A little lame, but oh well.

Just as much as you are voicing your opinion on supporting good companies, I'm voicing my opinion on choices in buying behaviors. My example of OEM vs. non OE parts is just that...a comparison and not meant to put wheels in the same category. So not reading between the lines, the buying behavior is all the same, regardless of product. If the option is there, generally people will want to spend economically. This forum is about community and lifestyle, name calling people as "cheap" because they are looking for alternatives is what i think is shitty.

By the way, I have not implied in my opinions not to support the good companies.

To my BBS quote - I stand corrected.

[M.Burroughs]

I'm not going to sit and try to justify everything once again. Most of you are already arguing points I've already made. This has nothing to do with the cost of wheels. There are tons of cheap wheels out there if you can't afford 3pc BBSs.

No one is calling anything fake. I'm calling out replicas. No matter what kind of leg you think you have to stand on, your justification for supporting replica companies is a cheap attempt to justify your lack of standards and willingness to do "the right thing" and support good companies.

I've said time and time again that I think cheap wheels are great. There are a lot of people who can't afford expensive things. But that doesn't make it okay to support companies that are stealing designs from industry originators. No "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it.

OK, lets be real. How many of us here have fixed somthing on our cars with a part that wasn't OEM? Let it be a fuse, a light bulb, a fuel pump, an air filter.

Do you all wear designer clothes or do you buy something that's a bit more affordable?

Not to be rude, but you're displaying your ignorance in full force. Replacement parts are protected under law so that auto manufacturers can't monopolize and gouge you just so you can keep your car road legal. Wheel designs aren't remotely close to falling in the same category. They're performance/fashion items. It's an entirely different industry.

Using clothes is a fair example, but your analogy is poor. Can't afford Gucci? Go buy Old Navy. Not Gucci knockoff shit.

Can't afford BBSs? Buy Enkeis. Buy 5zigens. Buy any number of inexpensive, original, cast alternatives. Buy used even. But don't give your money to the people stealing BBSs design.

There is no justification for buying wheels of stolen designs. There are countless great, quality companies out there with stylish, unique, and well-build wheels of their own at every price point.

And don't even get me started on you "seeing BBS flourishing." BBS has been in bankruptcy for years. While I'm not blaming that on replica wheels, get your arguments straight.

I'll quote my last post once more, and then I'm out of here. Attempts at reading between the lines just proves that some of you have no backbone and don't want to see the truth. Support quality. Support real companies. And stop trying to justify cheapness, or the fact that you might curb something, or that the "real" companies are still in business. You just look pathetic.

Everyone arguing back and forth: There are two streets to this argument. Yes, quality is an important one. "You always get what you pay for" is not true - there are very cheap wheels that are built with quality and care, such as the folks at Enkei. There are expensive wheels that are built with no standards, such as Kranson. And there are countless wheels in between. Poorly engineered wheels fail, and chances are, if you're running replica wheels, they're not tested to a reasonable extent.

Cheap wheels =/= Bad wheels. There are great options at every price point.

What you guys should care about is supporting creative companies that push the industry forward - not the ones that rip them off. By supporting replica companies, you're starving the guys who designed, tested, and created the real thing. If you kill them off, we're left with nothing. Don't say "oh well I could never afford real LMs anyways so it's okay if I get fakes." Just because you can't afford real ones doesn't make it okay to support a company who stole the design. You're supporting thieves, you're supporting companies that hurt the integrity of the automotive aftermarket, which is something we all practically live in.

To say that buying replicas doesn't hurt the big guys is the most uninformed justification you could ever hope to make. Companies like Greddy/TRUST have gone through bankruptcy because of counterfeit companies. Mackin Industries, who are the great people behind names like Volk and Rays, have released statements that any distributors who carry replicas of their wheels will not be allowed to carry the real deal.

Companies like these are the people that innovate, create, and build the next big thing for the car scene each year. Stop supporting the idiots who are stealing these designs and passing them off to you in half-assed low-quality versions. Support these companies because they, whether you realize it or not, support you as well.

The guys at Volk support this forum by helping pay for the massive costs it takes to run this website. This forum is free for you guys to use - but at the end of the day, this site costs more to run than I think most of you might expect. If you support the knockoffs like Varstoen and Rota, you'll kill everything we've got.

Be real automotive enthusiasts. Save your pennies if you can't afford something. That's what your grandfather would tell you. Your father too. Buy the real thing - support quality and innovation. And **** off with your replica bullshit.

[244Brick]

Yeah. But when you buy that cheaper alternative fuse, light bulb,fuel pump , air filter etc. They usually fail prematurely and you're left spending twice for a cheap aftermarket part as opposed to doing it right and buying the OEM part from the start. In the end this can be more costly than buying the real deal name brand part from the start. I know from experience I learned my lesson long ago that buying the cheaper alternative part is a big NO NO. Unlike designer cloths Where a shirt is a shirt , jeans are jeans. Sure the cheap walmart jeans might wear out faster than say 7 jeans. But hey. That again proves the point that REAL > FAKE.....

Couldn't have said it better!

[Average_Jerk]

Rota makes a lot of OEM wheels. If you didn't already know that

[jdel]

Taking this example further, Rota has replicated Mugen, Works, Enkei, BBS, but I see all of these companies still flourishing, and not soon to become the next BestBuy who failed to see and adapt to a changing market place.

Go out to most vehicles and check the brand of the OEM wheels. You may be surprised to find out that a lot of them are actually those same "name brand" wheels you just mentioned. I would assume that companies like BBS make more money in the OEM business than in the aftermarket.

[mrx928]

+1 I dont mind a spirited debate. As long as nothing turns ugly or personal.

and in the spirit of being off topic, your car is badass and love watching your time/energy/effort and progress.

[SD202]

Honestly, I hope this thread doesn't die. Although very off topic, I think open respectful banter and collisions of opionions are healthy.

+1 I dont mind a spirited debate. As long as nothing turns ugly or personal.

[mrx928]

Yeah. But when you buy that cheaper alternative fuse, light bulb,fuel pump , air filter etc. They usually fail prematurely and you're left spending twice for a cheap aftermarket part as opposed to doing it right and buying the OEM part from the start. In the end this can be more costly than buying the real deal name brand part from the start. I know from experience I learned my lesson long ago that buying the cheaper alternative part is a big NO NO. Unlike designer cloths Where a shirt is a shirt , jeans are jeans. Sure the cheap walmart jeans might wear out faster than say 7 jeans. But hey. That again proves the point that REAL > FAKE.....

Yup, I think the "quality" and "what you pay is what you get" is pretty much agreed upon in this thread. For the most part, my choice of not going for an OEM part has rarely failed me. Maybe 1 or 2 small parts, but that's about it. Given that ratio, I'll take my chances on that non-OEM part.

But that aside, I appreciate having choices. If I can get the top shelf product I will. But if I don't have to I won't.

And if the aftermarket scene only offered top shelf, premium quality, premium priced products, sites like this would never exist. You would either see high end expensively modified cars or stock. Pretty boring if you ask me.

Honestly, I hope this thread doesn't die. Although very off topic, I think open respectful banter and collisions of opionions are healthy.

[SD202]

Agree



I only agree to this statement to an extent. GReddy/TRUST did file for bankruptcy but I'm hardpressed to believe that this was all due to counterfeit companies (or competition). By 2008 GReddy/TRUST had 60million in debt, which to me is more closely linked to a management/business issues.

Taking this example further, Rota has replicated Mugen, Works, Enkei, BBS, but I see all of these companies still flourishing, and not soon to become the next BestBuy who failed to see and adapt to a changing market place.

To each their own, but demand dictates that there are product offerings at all levels of the market, so buyers can choose to purchase whatever/wherever they want.



Hrmm...This is an interesting one. So one can't be a real auto enthusiast unless they buy top shelf/name brand/"real"/bespoke products.

OK, lets be real. How many of us here have fixed somthing on our cars with a part that wasn't OEM? Let it be a fuse, a light bulb, a fuel pump, an air filter.

Do you all wear designer clothes or do you buy something that's a bit more affordable?

End of the day, I can buy a set of BBS if I wanted to, but I would rather diversify my spendings on my car and prioritize my money to other obligations in life. I can live in my house, and would rather not live in my car. I like that fact that I have product choices that lets me keep one of my many hobbies and interests alive.

Yeah. But when you buy that cheaper alternative fuse, light bulb,fuel pump , air filter etc. They usually fail prematurely and you're left spending twice for a cheap aftermarket part as opposed to doing it right and buying the OEM part from the start. In the end this can be more costly than buying the real deal name brand part from the start. I know from experience I learned my lesson long ago that buying the cheaper alternative part is a big NO NO. Unlike designer cloths Where a shirt is a shirt , jeans are jeans. Sure the cheap walmart jeans might wear out faster than say 7 jeans. But hey. That again proves the point that REAL > FAKE.....

[mrx928]

Cheap wheels =/= Bad wheels. There are great options at every price point.

Agree

To say that buying replicas doesn't hurt the big guys is the most uninformed justification you could ever hope to make. Companies like Greddy/TRUST have gone through bankruptcy because of counterfeit companies.

I only agree to this statement to an extent. GReddy/TRUST did file for bankruptcy but I'm hardpressed to believe that this was all due to counterfeit companies (or competition). By 2008 GReddy/TRUST had 60million in debt, which to me is more closely linked to a management/business issues.

Taking this example further, Rota has replicated Mugen, Works, Enkei, BBS, but I see all of these companies still flourishing, and not soon to become the next BestBuy who failed to see and adapt to a changing market place.

To each their own, but demand dictates that there are product offerings at all levels of the market, so buyers can choose to purchase whatever/wherever they want.

Be real automotive enthusiasts. Save your pennies if you can't afford something. That's what your grandfather would tell you. Your father too. Buy the real thing - support quality and innovation. And **** off with your replica bullshit.

Hrmm...This is an interesting one. So one can't be a real auto enthusiast unless they buy top shelf/name brand/"real"/bespoke products.

OK, lets be real. How many of us here have fixed somthing on our cars with a part that wasn't OEM? Let it be a fuse, a light bulb, a fuel pump, an air filter.

Do you all wear designer clothes or do you buy something that's a bit more affordable?

End of the day, I can buy a set of BBS if I wanted to, but I would rather diversify my spendings on my car and prioritize my money to other obligations in life. I can live in my house, and would rather not live in my car. I like that fact that I have product choices that lets me keep one of my many hobbies and interests alive.

[SleepyRN]

To be fair there are good and bad reps but even genuine rims can fail.

To be fair the wheel in this photo is a magnesium wheel (search for issues with magnesium wheels - they are well documented).
That particular wheel failed on a Porsche race car on T5 at Summit Point, according to the owner, "which is the only low speed left turn on the track. Had it happened at the T3 or T8, which are both high speed left handers, it could have been ugly!"

These wheels had been beat on season after season in all sorts of weather and under very harsh conditions.

[244Brick]

Everyone arguing back and forth: There are two streets to this argument. Yes, quality is an important one. "You always get what you pay for" is not true - there are very cheap wheels that are built with quality and care, such as the folks at Enkei. There are expensive wheels that are built with no standards, such as Kranson. And there are countless wheels in between. Poorly engineered wheels fail, and chances are, if you're running replica wheels, they're not tested to a reasonable extent.

Cheap wheels =/= Bad wheels. There are great options at every price point.

What you guys should care about is supporting creative companies that push the industry forward - not the ones that rip them off. By supporting replica companies, you're starving the guys who designed, tested, and created the real thing. If you kill them off, we're left with nothing. Don't say "oh well I could never afford real LMs anyways so it's okay if I get fakes." Just because you can't afford real ones doesn't make it okay to support a company who stole the design. You're supporting thieves, you're supporting companies that hurt the integrity of the automotive aftermarket, which is something we all practically live in.

To say that buying replicas doesn't hurt the big guys is the most uninformed justification you could ever hope to make. Companies like Greddy/TRUST have gone through bankruptcy because of counterfeit companies. Mackin Industries, who are the great people behind names like Volk and Rays, have released statements that any distributors who carry replicas of their wheels will not be allowed to carry the real deal.

Companies like these are the people that innovate, create, and build the next big thing for the car scene each year. Stop supporting the idiots who are stealing these designs and passing them off to you in half-assed low-quality versions. Support these companies because they, whether you realize it or not, support you as well.

The guys at Volk support this forum by helping pay for the massive costs it takes to run this website. This forum is free for you guys to use - but at the end of the day, this site costs more to run than I think most of you might expect. If you support the knockoffs like Varstoen and Rota, you'll kill everything we've got.

Be real automotive enthusiasts. Save your pennies if you can't afford something. That's what your grandfather would tell you. Your father too. Buy the real thing - support quality and innovation. And **** off with your replica bullshit.

-Mike Borroughs


Period. End of Discussion!

[Oxer]

if you have rep wheels, your band from stanceworks.

as in, they're on the bandwagon thats on the road to being cool but not quite there?

If so, I agree.