Thinking about lowering my W108 Mercedes

[Canada]

w108 Coil Springs

Thought I would share my 2 days worth of research on w108 (1966 250S) Coil Springs with everyone. The below is for the 250S but I've attached the MB Data Techbook details on the other models as well.

Front Coil Spring Part No. for MERCEDES-BENZ: 108 321 03 04
Model: 250S / Chasiss: W108.012 / Engine: 2.5L V6 / Automatic with A/C, Power Steering and Power Brakes
Vehicle Permissible total weight: 1940 kg
Front axle capacity: 885 kg
Rear axle capacity: 1055 kg

MB Tech Databook For Front Springs 108 321 03 04
Free length of spring “L” [mm]: 378
Spring length under normal load [mm]: 252
Load “P” normal kp: 652
Load “P” max kp: 983
Spring travel per 100 kp of load [mm]: 19.3
Wire thickness “d” [mm]: 16.2
Mean winding “d” diameter [mm]: 110
Number of windings: 10 3
Thickness [mm]: 15,9
Length [mm]: 410
Weight [kg]: 5,6
Outer Diameter 1 [mm]: 126

Other Front Springs that are a direct swap with the MB ones:
SPIDAN 48662 Direct Cross Interchange
SUPLEX 19050 Direct Cross Interchange
BOGE 813480 Direct Cross Interchange
CS Germany 14319802 Direct Cross Interchange
KYB RA1943 Indirect Cross Interchange
K+F 319802 Indirect Cross Interchange

Rear Coil Spring for MERCEDES-BENZ: 108 324 02 04

MB Tech Databook for Rear Springs 108 321 02 04
Free length of spring “L” [mm]: 314
Spring length under normal load [mm]: 215
Load “P” normal kp: 614
Load “P” max kp: 990
Spring travel per 100 kp of load [mm]: 16.2
Wire thickness “d” [mm]: 15.9
Mean winding “d” diameter [mm]: 120
Number of windings: 6
Thickness [mm]: 15,9
Length [mm]: 325
Weight [kg]: 4,5
Outer Diameter 1 [mm]: 137

Other Rear Springs that are a direct swap with the MB ones:
SPIDAN 48663 Direct Cross Interchange
SUPLEX 19051 Direct Cross Interchange 6
K+F 31981000 Direct Cross Interchange 6
BOGE 813490 Direct Cross Interchange 6
BILSTEIN 36159420 Direct Cross Interchange 6
SACHS 996164 Direct Cross Interchange 6
TRW JCS985 Direct Cross Interchange 2

http://www.autopartoo.com/oem/partscrossinterchange.html?search=1083240204

Also, if you look at the springs themselves they have one end that is pigtail (don't cut that end) and the other is tangential (spins off into space). At least according to Eaton Detroit Springs (guys who've made springs for 100 years) they are okay to cut: read this: http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs/

Yes, they will make the spring stiffer but that is needed given the car sits lower to the ground; you want it stiffer so you don't bottom out all the time. When you have custom lowered springs made, they are stiffer than the stock ones - suprise suprise.

Hope this helps everyone.

[Alexandro22]

Really this is reliable details i like this actually i was in looking for this details and considering to create a line for this but i have no need to create any line after study out this details anyways thanks for this and have a awesome day ..............

[Raarasutra]

I recently purchased a mint 1966 250s with 61K original miles (see pict below). I love the car but I can only assume the 11" of ground clearance was a design necessity in the 60s when you routinely needed to transport 5 large Germans and their luggage, while driving over bad roads, in winter, with snow chains on, going uphill both ways.

I laughed so hard. You win

[Canada]

Great thread. It is nice to finally meet people who've done what I want to do (i.e. lower it by cutting the springs).

I recently purchased a mint 1966 250s with 61K original miles (see pict below). I love the car but I can only assume the 11" of ground clearance was a design necessity in the 60s when you routinely needed to transport 5 large Germans and their luggage, while driving over bad roads, in winter, with snow chains on, going uphill both ways.



Lewda & Sailor: I have a couple of questions:
1. Are the springs square ends (i.e. they sit flat on the ground when you take them out of the car)? if so, what did you do (if anything) to make them flat again? I've read that some people heat up a part of the coil up from the cut and push down on the spring to form it back to a square bottom.

2. Did you place the cut end facing up or facing down towards the ground upon re-install?

3. Any trick to taking out the compenstor coil? Is it preloaded and needs a spring compressor?

4. What tires are you running (brand and specs)? I don't like the looks of the 195/175 r14 that is on my car now.

Thanks for any and all advice.

[MEPEH]

Damn.. that's the mist comprehensive diy I've read in a while.
I took off the rear end myself last year so I know the rear springs are super easy.. I was more concerned about the fronts. The thing is that I may need to change the bushings and ball joint and that means alignment as well. I also need alignment in the rear after I rebuilt it. That's why ill wait till the riding season is over and do it myself.
Thanks for the advise, I will save the link follow your suggestions

[Kropfy247]

sweet two toned Merc you got, you wont ruin anything on the car if you do it right, its really easy to lower these with cut springs. You will ruin the hearts of purists and maybe scrape up your exhaust a bunch. There used to be H+R cup kits for the W108, but i dont know if they exist anymore or are worth buying. There is a guy at http://new.slmarket.com/ who will make custom springs for you, i think they run around 500-800 bucks.

If you want to cut your springs, its really easy:

The front: The easiest way in the front is to jack your car up on jack stands, there are four 19mm nuts on each control arm where it attaches to the subframe [19mm bolt through the top, and 19mm nut at the bottom]. Break those and put a jack under the control arm where it meets the subframe take those out and lower the jack slowly and the spring will come out. You may need to undo the front strut at the bottom [two 10mm nuts] and possibly the sway bar link [you should be able to do it without undoing the sway bar link]. When i first cut my fronts, I only cut off two coils, wanted it lower so i cut of .75 more. The image of my signature is the front with only two coils cut, but that being said, your springs height may vary depending on if they arent sagged or not. I can tear down the fronts for the spring in about ten minutes.

The rear: The rear is super easy [car on jack stands], there are two big nuts on each trailing arm connected to the diff, i wanna say the big ass wrench i used was a 1 7/8" wrench. They have metal washer that is bent up, just bent it back down with a screw driver and wrench away, with a jack under the arm of course! The rears I can tear down in about 5.

the link below is the PDF from the manual of how to remove the fronts by the book per mercedes.

https://www.lewisirving.com/mercedes/springinstall.pdf

One thing you need to check on your car is to see if you have the Hydro-Pneumatic compensator on your differential. looks like this:


If you have that, you need to swap it for the static spring like this:


if you dont replace it, when you cut your springs, your car will be low for about a day or two, while driving, the rear will pop back up, that is of course if it still works. I ended up cutting a coil and a half off the static compensator as the static one will give you positive camber.

Let me know if you need more manual stuff, I have the full CD for these cars with all the workshop crap, id also read through my thread which is linked in my sig, i bitched alot about my suspension

lewda, how much did you take off the rear springs to get it to look like your signature?

[lewda]

Awesome guys. Thanks for the instructions. I'll let you know how it goes
I don't have the Hydro-Pneumatic compensator, i think those never went on a 250 only the 4.6 and 6.3 had that as far as i remember
The rear are easy, i just refreshed the rear end recently in my garage and had to remove the spring in the back. Super easy. The fronts are the ones i was curious about
My mechanic said the fronts are a pita and asked 200 for the job in the front.
Not looking to slam it, i would like it to get to the level of the rim, not sure if you know what i mean, but i want the tire to be hidden behind the fender

Nah, def had them for your car as well, almost all of them with the split diffs had them, what I dont know is if they all came standard or if it was an option and the static spring came with the car as a replacement.

Your rear end sits pretty nice judging from the photo, if i were you, Id cut only 1 in the rear and two in the front, you can always cut more, but you cant put it back. If your mechanically inclined, you can do this job on your own, all you need is jack stands, a jack, cut off tool and some wrenches and 2-3 hours, its crazy easy.

EDIT: i just realized that the second photo you posted is from "Sailors" and not yours, you may want to go for more than one in the rear.

[sailor]

actually, that pic is when i finished it. it has settled down more in the front since then. not much more but a little more.

as for the op-- have you given any thought about grabbing v8 springs and cutting them down for your 6? would be a stiffer spring that may take the cutting and weight of the i6 a lot easier than the stock i6 springs. from what i can see, I6 and v8 rear springs are the same just the fronts are different.

as for your quote of $200 to perform the job--that is a fair if not cheap price imo. I know when i did mine, it was not an easy task by myself to get the springs back up in the car even w/ a 2 post lift. i unbolted lower control arms, let them swing down. to put them back in, had a floor jack jacking up on the control arm and i was still raising the car off the lift. once up far enough, i used a rolling head pry bar point end to line up the holes and sent it in. last thing you want to do is compress one of these springs and have a jack slide out sending the spring out like a missile.

to martinm13-- reason i was looking on this site to begin with was to see how people made the pockets for the air shocks. i would like to do mine to where im not chopping up the factory unibody in anyway. if you have some pics of how you did yours i would like to see them if you dont mind. dont mean to thread high jack. so you can pm me if you like.

thanks

sailor

[MEPEH]

Sailor, I like how the rear looks, i just think the front should go lower


I will probably go 2 rear and 2.5 front.
I never take it above 70 on the freeway. It's a 4 speed auto with a 2.5 engine and dual carburetors, i feel sorry for her above 70mph
And i never drive with anyone around. Don't want to rub the exhaust, but i think Sailor's rear looks great

[MEPEH]

Awesome guys. Thanks for the instructions. I'll let you know how it goes
I don't have the Hydro-Pneumatic compensator, i think those never went on a 250 only the 4.6 and 6.3 had that as far as i remember
The rear are easy, i just refreshed the rear end recently in my garage and had to remove the spring in the back. Super easy. The fronts are the ones i was curious about
My mechanic said the fronts are a pita and asked 200 for the job in the front.
Not looking to slam it, i would like it to get to the level of the rim, not sure if you know what i mean, but i want the tire to be hidden behind the fender

[martinm13]

Holy, that's a beautiful 108! I chopped my springs quite a bit but ended up bagging mine. Taking springs out is pretty easy, you just have to be careful on the fronts. The springs are super long unsprung and are under quite a bit of compression. Place a jack under the control arm and remove the pivot pin, let the jack down slowly and the spring will just fall out.

[sailor]

id do it. in my research, i believe it was h&r who made a sport kit for these cars, no longer available in the usa. they sell overseas for 2k+. i tried to get one stateside to no avail.

i actually did it myself on my 4.5 w108 to get rid of the tall ride height as well as the nose dive built into the stock suspension under braking. when i did the coil mods, i put bilstein hd shocks on it all the way around.

i cut 2 coils off the front top. the rear i tried 2 coils but it was way to low for my tastes. Car would drag the exhaust which i was not going for. Just wanted it lower. I then installed stock coils in rear with the compensator spring cut 1 coil. if i had let it as it was, with a full tank of gas and passengers, the drivetrain/swing axle shook to much at speeds over 60 plus the dragging. i drive 80-85 on the highway. i wanted to maintain that smooth highway drive.

i have about 40k miles/ 3 years on it since i did it. no issue with tire wear. my tires are now at the tread bars so time to get new meats. I may actually take my benz off the road. I picked up a 6.9 car for engine transplant. I will likely sell off my urq to fund my mercedes build. would like to paint it, air ride and 6.9 swap it.

here are pics before during, after.

[lewda]

sweet two toned Merc you got, you wont ruin anything on the car if you do it right, its really easy to lower these with cut springs. You will ruin the hearts of purists and maybe scrape up your exhaust a bunch. There used to be H+R cup kits for the W108, but i dont know if they exist anymore or are worth buying. There is a guy at http://new.slmarket.com/ who will make custom springs for you, i think they run around 500-800 bucks.

If you want to cut your springs, its really easy:

The front: The easiest way in the front is to jack your car up on jack stands, there are four 19mm nuts on each control arm where it attaches to the subframe [19mm bolt through the top, and 19mm nut at the bottom]. Break those and put a jack under the control arm where it meets the subframe take those out and lower the jack slowly and the spring will come out. You may need to undo the front strut at the bottom [two 10mm nuts] and possibly the sway bar link [you should be able to do it without undoing the sway bar link]. When i first cut my fronts, I only cut off two coils, wanted it lower so i cut of .75 more. The image of my signature is the front with only two coils cut, but that being said, your springs height may vary depending on if they arent sagged or not. I can tear down the fronts for the spring in about ten minutes.

The rear: The rear is super easy [car on jack stands], there are two big nuts on each trailing arm connected to the diff, i wanna say the big ass wrench i used was a 1 7/8" wrench. They have metal washer that is bent up, just bent it back down with a screw driver and wrench away, with a jack under the arm of course! The rears I can tear down in about 5.

the link below is the PDF from the manual of how to remove the fronts by the book per mercedes.

https://www.lewisirving.com/mercedes/springinstall.pdf

One thing you need to check on your car is to see if you have the Hydro-Pneumatic compensator on your differential. looks like this:


If you have that, you need to swap it for the static spring like this:


if you dont replace it, when you cut your springs, your car will be low for about a day or two, while driving, the rear will pop back up, that is of course if it still works. I ended up cutting a coil and a half off the static compensator as the static one will give you positive camber.

Let me know if you need more manual stuff, I have the full CD for these cars with all the workshop crap, id also read through my thread which is linked in my sig, i bitched alot about my suspension

[MEPEH]

Thanks for the positive feedback
Found lots of info on cutting the springs and found a guy who actually did it. I have it bookmarked at home. Just waiting for other guys to leave their feedback.
I saw a few stanced w108 here on the forum

By the way, no coilover options for this car
Bags or springs. Bags are out of budget and require too much hacking. I want to be able to bring It back to stock anytime/if I get bored with the stance

Thanks for the east LA idea
I heard someone in north san diego can do it too. Just don't know any details

[mule.]

that is beautiful. I cant wait to see it dropped.