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My kingdom for Panasport C8-17! (G7-C8S)

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  • My kingdom for Panasport C8-17! (G7-C8S)

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    Edit From The Future: I obtained the wheels. Skip to post #30 for the first of MANY pics.



    I've been in negotiations with Panasport for two years working on a set of 17" C8 wheels. I've gone so far as to have two different translators try to contact the Panasport president in Japan and the sole distributor in the US (I learned they are brothers). Panasport is notoriously difficult to deal with from the US, and after finally settling on an acceptable fitment and agreeing to their newly insane $800 shipping charge the final word in 2014 seems to be that they are no longer shipping C8 wheels to the US.

    I'm not sure if that is the truth, but it is the best info I have to go on. I've been told by someone raised in Japan that they are probably (incorrectly) worried that if the wheels don't fit my application (they have never supplied for my chassis before) then I will sue the crap out of them?!

    Needless to say, I've contacted every US reseller and since they all have to go through Mas in California (the brother of the Panasport president) they all have the same story. They can't help me.


    I'm not aware of any Panasport C8 wheels in a 5x120 bolt pattern (BMW) so I've given up there. I'd love to find a set of C8-17 in a 5 lug, but I would settle for a set in 4 lug. At this point I realize I'm going to have to have them filled and re-drilled anyway. I don't care what barrels they come with, or if they have none at all. Wheel bore is also of no concern anymore. I will settle for ANYTHING in a 17" configuration.

    I'm looking for a used set, or someone who can magically get a new set out of Panasport.
    I've considered getting some contacts in Japan to buy me a used set and ship them over, but they don't seem to come up for sale in Japan's auction sites nearly as often as you'd expect. 17" sets seem to be extremely rare. I only know of 4-6 sets in the US.

    I'm so desperate I'm willing to offer a $200-$500 finders fee (depending on how well they match my needs) to anyone who can get these wheel centers in my hands.

    Any and all advice is welcome. Please do not feel bad if you suggest another brand of wheel that "looks the same" and I find some flaw with the idea. I believe I am aware of the alternatives and they are not adequate for my needs.


    I will update this thread with more information as I find it. I feel like I'm a Minilite and Minilite knock-off expert now having researched the topic for the past decade.


    And so we can have an idea of what we're talking about here. This is a confirmed C8-17 wheel (originally with a gold center that I photoshopped silver).
    Last edited by BenFenner; 02-09-2019, 07:21 AM.

  • #2
    These are the similar options in 17" that I've found in case someone else is willing to settle for less:


    Compomotive ML - This may or may not be a Minilite copy as I haven't done the timeline research. If they did copy the Minilite, they copied the uglier smooth-spoked versions that lack a spine to the spoke. Not really my style, but some people can't tell the difference?
    Apparently they heard my plea for a 17" version of this wheel on Facebook back in 2012, as this 17" version is very new.

    Image Wheels RM2 - More of a Compomotive ML knock-off than a proper Minilite knock-off, but decent. Their RM3 would be perfect, but only comes in 13".

    Panasport Formula One C8FE - These are 17" Panasports that look the part, and are monoblock. They even come in Z3 fitment, but only for non-M cars. The offset isn't right for the M Coupe. If only they had a little more dish they would be perfect. These are only sold in Japan.

    Performance Alloy Wheels Superlite - The look is perfect, and when you click on the images of their 16" offerings they state they are considering 17" and 18" versions. They are monoblock which has its benefits and drawbacks.
    Edit from 2019-12-01: It looks like they offer 17" wheels now, and being shown on Mighty Car Mods seems to have helped them out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_iQjpn7Pzc
    The US distributor is Trans AM Race Engineering

    PS Engineering Wheels T/A - II - These border on a Watanabe RS knock-off which make them completely unsuited for my needs. Too bad, they are almost there. It is very weird to see this Minlite/Watanabe hybrid design. Usually wheels are clearly one or the other. These wheels use an awkward older non-tapered lug setup. Better pics.

    Rota RB Rear (RB-R, RBR) - Quite ugly convex spoke design and not offered in 5x120 nor in wider sizes. Plus I hatе Rota with a passion.

    Rota RB-X - Almost looks the part, and if they had a 5x120 bolt pattern and wider options I might consider them even though I hatе Rota with a passion.

    Superlite Wheels Ultralite - Not organic enough of a spoke design for me. But available up to 19" for those who want.

    Team Three Wheels LT-III - The company is popular with the Factory Five and general domestic crowd. Sadly they copied a lesser known Minilite wheel with an awkward raised circle where the spokes meet the hub which ruins the look for me. Good fitment options though.

    Vintage Wheel Works Vintage 48 - Even uglier than the Team Three Wheels LT-III.
    Last edited by BenFenner; 12-01-2019, 07:23 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      These are the places that make a Minilite knock-off but that don't come in 17" sizes. For those looking for 16" or smaller these would be worth considering:


      Enkei Compe - Odd rim slats but otherwise very good.

      Panasport G7-C8R - Very similar to the G7-C8S this thread is about, but the hub face is much more contoured or sunken in versus the spokes. They don't come in 17", and are only sold in Japan.

      Rota RB and others - In some offsets and sizes they look okay, and in others they look quite bad. I'm not sure what's worse, an XXR wheel or a Rota wheel. =/

      VTO Performace (formerly Pack Racing) Classic 8 - Pretty decent Minilite copy popular for classic 911s.

      XXR (formerly Sportmax) 513 "Banana Sport" - Hilariously thick spokes and hilariously poor quality. Somehow, they still look amazing. If they came in 17" I'd consider them.
      (These seem to be out of production now.)

      XXR (formerly Sportmax) 537 "Nostalgic" - A newer design from XXR and getting close to a good Minilite copy. If they came in 17" I'd consider them even though the quality is probably abysmal.
      Last edited by BenFenner; 01-16-2015, 02:45 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you considered cutting the faces from a set of wheels and having them re-barreled to make a 2 piece welded wheel?



        Or alternatively, custom lips/barrels to upsize an existing 3 piece wheel?

        Comment


        • #5
          Kyle, your name looks familiar.

          Originally posted by KyleAnderson View Post
          Have you considered cutting the faces from a set of wheels and having them re-barreled to make a 2 piece welded wheel?

          http://www.memoryfab.com/blog/view/2
          I haven't considered exactly that, but it is worth looking into. I'd have to find a suitable center to work from, and the only one I can think of right now might be the Panasport Formula One C8FE? But that wheel is a single casting. I'm not sure what else would work and get me the look I'm after. Maybe you can clarify a bit here on the capabilities.

          Maybe the 16" monoblock Panasport FS-16 would be a better starting point? I need to find out if they can work from a 1-piece cast wheel. Time to give them a call I guess.


          Originally posted by KyleAnderson View Post
          Or alternatively, custom lips/barrels to upsize an existing 3 piece wheel?

          http://www.tunershop.com/Wheel_acces.../custom_built/
          The existing centers I'd consider are the Panasport C8-15 and C8-16, however the C8-16 is already an up-sized C8-15 where they share the same diameter center. The 16s look pretty bad to me with the up-sized barrels, and I'm afraid 17" would only make things that much worse.
          Last edited by BenFenner; 05-27-2014, 03:29 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Enkei compe faces would be your best bet if you're going to convert them to 3 piece.

            𝔣𝔬𝔩𝔩𝔬𝔴 𝔪𝔢
            @𝔳𝔦𝔳𝔢_𝔪𝔢𝔪𝔬𝔯_𝔩𝔢𝔱𝔦

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you considered looking for a dealer to perhaps find a set on Yahoo Japan? I'm not sure if these are extremely rare or something, but for a relatively decent price- considering what lengths it seems you'll go to in order to find some, perhaps looking in Japan could yield a better result?
              Rennstall offers these services, as well as many others- some of which sell wheels on the Stanceworks forum.
              Originally posted by electricalbox
              12 inches of goodness!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rice4life View Post
                Enkei compe faces would be your best bet if you're going to convert them to 3 piece.
                You do have a point there. I wonder if taking a cast 1-piece wheel and turning it into a 3-piece (like they did with the Fuchs wheels for the 911) is something anyone wants to tackle for a one-off project.

                Originally posted by Strawhat View Post
                Have you considered looking for a dealer to perhaps find a set on Yahoo Japan? I'm not sure if these are extremely rare or something, but for a relatively decent price- considering what lengths it seems you'll go to in order to find some, perhaps looking in Japan could yield a better result?
                I've only recently started looking at Japanese auction sites. It seems to me the G7-C8R is a much more popular design over there (maybe cheaper than the G7-C8S that I'm looking for?) and finding a 17" Panasport is not likely. I've found much more evidence of 17" Panasports in the US than I have in Japan. However, I might not be looking in the right places. I will certainly try harder, and a dedicated dealer might be the way to go.

                Originally posted by Strawhat View Post
                Rennstall offers these services, as well as many others- some of which sell wheels on the Stanceworks forum.
                Got any more company names? I will look into this for sure. Thank you!



                Edit: I've sent an e-mail to Rennstall just now. We'll see what they say. I'd still like to know who else provides this type of service.
                Last edited by BenFenner; 05-28-2014, 07:58 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BenFenner View Post
                  Kyle, your name looks familiar.

                  I haven't considered exactly that, but it is worth looking into. I'd have to find a suitable center to work from, and the only one I can think of right now might be the Panasport Formula One C8FE? But that wheel is a single casting. I'm not sure what else would work and get me the look I'm after. Maybe you can clarify a bit here on the capabilities.

                  Maybe the 16" monoblock Panasport FS-16 would be a better starting point? I need to find out if they can work from a 1-piece cast wheel. Time to give them a call I guess.


                  The existing centers I'd consider are the Panasport C8-15 and C8-16, however the C8-16 is already an up-sized C8-15 where they share the same diameter center. The 16s look pretty bad to me with the up-sized barrels, and I'm afraid 17" would only make things that much worse.
                  Take a look at what this guy does:


                  The first option would be to cut the centers out on a lathe, then weld them to a single piece barrel. This is how many wheels used to be made, like the PS Engineering wheels you posted. The trick is getting a face to match the inside diameter of an existing barrel. MemoryFab could help you with this sizing.

                  From that link, you can see that people will also convert a 1 piece wheel to 3 piece. As long as there's sufficient bolt flange thickness (~.5") and width, lips/barrels can be made in any size to fit. As rice4life said, the Enkei Compe looks like the best candidate with the thick ring between where the spokes end and the outer rim. The slats would be machined off.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Keeping these records for myself. This chronicles my attempts to buy genuine Panasport C8-17 wheels.


                    First contacted Keith at Averill Racing Stuff for a quote to purchase Panasport wheels in 2012 as his web site is the only Panasport dealer showing C8-17 wheels as even existing. Two years of specification negotiations and Yen-to-Dollar fluctuations lead finally to a purchase order (I gave up on getting the specs I wanted and just accepted the specs they gave me). Eventually the order was was canceled, initially with a comment about how they were worried about mounting tires to these specifications, and then finally just saying Panasport no longer ships C8 wheels to the US.

                    Thinking I might have better luck spec-ing these things out somewhere else (I was not aware at the time that every dealer in North America is hamstrung by the same issue) I contacted another Panasport dealer that I can't remember the name of right now so I won't make any guesses. The owner kept me on the phone for almost an hour telling me every way possible that I didn't want nor deserve Panasport wheels and I should rethink my goals, etc. etc.
                    It was completely ridiculous.

                    During those two years when specifications were difficult to come by, I also had Ruth from Spruell Motorsport attempt to get some information about Panasport's three different C8 wheel centers. They have an "AA" design, a "BB" design, and a "CC" design. I think they differ only in back pad spacing going from the thin "AA" to the thickest "CC" but I never got solid confirmation on this. I think they vary in thickness by 6mm between each center, used to adjust brake clearance and fine tune offset.

                    I had a Japanese friend of a friend who lives in Canada call Panasport Japan directly to try to get the specs about the three different wheel centers. He spoke with the president of Panasport and was told that Mas in California was his brother, and the only person who can talk specs to those in North America. This buddy of mine remarked on how odd their conversation was. He said it was extremely discourteous that a Japanese native would act this way to a potential customer.

                    After speaking with Mas in CA over the phone in English and getting nowhere I had another Japanese speaking friend of mine who lives in Mexico draft an e-mail in Japanese to Mas to try to get the specs about the wheel centers. I was given a one sentence reply in English saying that this information is not for end users. The buddy of mine mentioned how extremely odd this kind of reply was coming from a Japanese born individual. After I was finally refused the ability to purchase these wheels, this friend of mine mentioned that Panasport may be very worried that I will sue them if the wheels don't fit and because they have never supplied for my chassis before they are reluctant to take orders for it.

                    I also contacted Rob from Z-Car Garage twice. He seems to sell the most C8-17 wheels in the US and seems to have sold some very recently. First I tried to confirm the back pad spacing theory. Rob was very nice and enthusiastic when first talking to him. After he contacted Mas in California he called me back and was very cold and distant with me. He told me to deal only with Keith at Averill Racing Stuff as that was my first dealer contact. I have since been told that Panasport is VERY good at encouraging and maintaining their dealer network (which I can appreciate). I called Rob again very recently to try to see if Panasport really was no longer shipping C8 wheels to the US. He was reluctant to discuss the issue with me, but did say he orders them 5 sets at a time, and his last shipment was 6 months ago.

                    In the past few days I found an old post from 2004 on a 911 forum (I think) where someone mentioned Tom Bishop from Auto Sport Gallery sourced them their C8 wheels. I called to see if he's still selling Panasport wheels, and while he doesn't sell many wheels at all anymore he said he still was in good standing with Mas from Panasport on the West coast so he offered to take my specs via e-mail and either try to get an order through or get the real story on why I'm being refused purchase. I told him all about my story and he wasn't turned off by the whole thing, which was a nice change of pace.


                    Just now the buddy in Mexico found this site that sells new Panasports in Japan: http://www.hirano-tire.co.jp/pana/pana8.htm
                    If I could find someone in Japan to order them and ship them to me I might be in luck. Easier said than done I'm sure.
                    He says www.tenso.com will do it, but I can't really navigate the site without knowing Japanese. =(

                    I've asked Skidmarks Wheel & Tire via Facebook if they've ever come across these wheels.
                    They said they go for 16" and smaller since that's what their customers buy. With a deposit they would look for a 17" set of G7-C8S for me. Waiting to see what kind of deposit they want.

                    Rennstall said via e-mail they'd look into the possibility of finding these wheels used.

                    I've asked Elite JDM via Facebook if they've ever come across these wheels and if they'd be willing to keep an eye out for some.
                    They replied "havent seen any in years"

                    I've been speaking with Apt. 9 Wheels / Mastermind on Facebook and they seem encouraging. They want to talk over the phone about the details.
                    We've spoken on the phone now and they seem very helpful and enthusiastic about the idea. They claim they don't have to go through the US distributor and can order from Panasport directly in Japan and ship the wheels over themselves. They are looking into the possibility of getting the wheels new and to my desired specs. I am expecting an e-mail back from them in a few days.

                    Latest word from Rajeet Dalal (at Apt. 9 Wheels / Mastermind) this week is that they've contacted Panasport of Japan and with my desired specs were given multiple options to choose from. I'd given them windows of allowable offsets for the front and rear of +35-40mm offset for the front and +10-20mm offset for the rear. Using the "CC" wheel center with the most brake clearance up front, I have the option of +33 and +39 offset. I chose +39 to make sure I can add a spacer to clear the brakes if I need to. For the rear it sounds like they spec'd the "AA" (standard) wheel center which I've been fighting to try to get for the rears and is one of the main reasons the original negotiations took so long. They have the options of +10, +13, +17, and +20 for the rear. I chose the +10 option. If I want to go more aggressive I can later. Having the wheel centers is the most important to me at this point. I'm waiting on an e-mail from Rajeet with all of the specs and proposed options. They are also waiting to hear from Panasport for an ETA before they take payment. I might finally be getting these things!

                    I got a quote from Rajeet Dalal and all looks good. They have taken my credit card info (today is 2014-06-17) and the order is going in. I'm being told to expect 13-16 weeks for shipment. Now, the waiting game.
                    Last edited by BenFenner; 05-21-2015, 03:38 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Keeping these records for myself. This chronicles my attempts to build Panasport C8-17 copies using 1-piece cast wheels machined down as alternative centers.


                      Kyle, I looked through the thread you linked (which was a great link by the way) and from it found Ehrlich Wheelworks on the US East coast who will turn 1-piece wheels into 3-piece wheels. I have sent them an inquiry on Facebook about the feasibility of my request and if a 15" or 16" center would be best to start from.
                      They said 16" would be best.
                      They need to know the wheel face diameter, which might be hard to get without buying the wheels first.

                      I'm told there is a user on this forum who is more active on m3forum named Floss who also does this work.
                      Same goes for a user Icana4dit. I need to reach out to them.

                      I've been told to avoid Vince DeLuca and spinfab.net
                      Last edited by BenFenner; 06-10-2014, 10:13 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bump for anyone with better ideas.

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                        • #13
                          Have you talked to Watanabe? The RS-8's are 3 piece and I've seen 17 inch versions. If i'm correct VR motoring had a custom set of 5x120 for sale a couple years back.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BenFenner View Post
                            Edit: I've sent an e-mail to Rennstall just now. We'll see what they say. I'd still like to know who else provides this type of service.
                            Mastermind, a sponsor and site supporter here, offers this option and they bring in shipments fairly regularly because they are a large import company that deals directly through Japan. I use them for wheels and it's easy and affordable. Just brought a set of wheels over for my Mini. You simply send them a link to the auction that you are interested in and they handle everything else from bidding, shipping within japan, and shipping here to the US.

                            Mastermindna.com

                            Be sure that you are using パナスポーツ when searching the auction sites.

                            Grab some 16s and step them up to 17s. Step lips are a more classic look and would work well with panasport centers.

                            Just two wheels, but you get the idea:
                            ヤフオク!は、誰でも簡単に売り買いが楽しめる、日本最大のネットオークションサイトです。圧倒的な商品数を誇るヤフオク!で、落札・出品してみませんか?補償制度もあります。

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jlyons617 View Post
                              Have you talked to Watanabe? The RS-8's are 3 piece and I've seen 17 inch versions. If i'm correct VR motoring had a custom set of 5x120 for sale a couple years back.
                              Watanabe doesn't make a Minilite knock-off.

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