How does this work

[DDM]

awesome. thank you for the links

im going to get to the bottom of this. i am bringing my toe to 0 and bringing my front caster down a little as it is currently maxed out at +11 (checked last night), so that should bring the wheel slightly farther back and not having toe out will help a bit.

anyone know the owner of the mr2? is he a member here?

You are going to want some toe though, unless your suspension bushes are really really hard. The toe is meant mostly to compensate for looseness in those bushes in the driving direction, that's why they are normally slightly toe in. If you are on Poly bushes or something I'd set it to just a little bit, setting it to zero seems like a bad idea. Toe in on the front axle of a RWD car really helps handling.

[1badg35]

awesome\. thank you for the links

im going to get to the bottom of this. i am bringing my toe to 0 and bringing my front caster down a little as it is currently maxed out at +11 (checked last night), so that should bring the wheel slightly farther back and not having toe out will help a bit.

anyone know the owner of the mr2? is he a member here?

[StatusRacing]

A local drifter actually used the caster trick to get more steering angle this past season. I'll see if I can find the info he posted. It's not much, but it might help a little.

EDIT: Found the thread. Here's a post that might help get you guys to understand George aka The Lumberjack:

WHOA! Great response. Loving the fact that people actually care about their cars setup.

Chase's settings are pretty spot on. Although -7º front camber is too much UNLESS you have knuckles like he does. With knuckles it's a perfect setting.

Definitely start with close to zero rear camber. Watch how your tire wears with different rear camber. I'd try -0.5º in the rear and see how it goes.

Caster is good at the stock setting or slightly more positive. Too much and the car will drive like balls and you'll have no front grip.

Low cars can DEFINITELY be competitive. I **** this whole stigma around "my car needs to be stock ride height to win". F-that. Come to a TBF comp and I'll deduct 10 points for having a high car. hahahaha

Raising the subframe is also a great upgrade. No downsides and it keeps the rear working much better.

PS. Stay away from Energy suspension rear bushings. It's going to sound crazy but trust me. They are TOO stiff. When the susp compresses on the 240 there are 4 different arms pulling the upright in whatever direction they want to. This causes tons of bind and with ES bushings you basically have a rear end that feels like shit. Stick with OEM or go all out with some sphericals.

Low rear spring rates + sway bars. Less roll but still squat.

Also, the most important part about drifting is having a cool looking car. DONT FORGET IT ASSHOLES.

And here's the posts where he talks about his caster: http://az240sx.org/forums/index.php?...dpost&p=713482 AND http://az240sx.org/forums/index.php?...dpost&p=713486

But I also did some work to where my tire is more vertical at angle and not flopping over and driving on the sidewall. Note how the loaded wheel has less positive camber at angle. This helps SOOO much when drifting and giving you front grip.

Yes, changed the caster. FC suspension is similar to S13 so it doesn't make a difference whether it's s13 or fc we talk about.

I pulled the caster back to +5.5º or so. Lots of caster causes you to have great feedback in the steering and the self centering effect, but too much(especially with knuckles) can "flop" the tire over. That's basically what happened for me last year.

There is not a whole lot of grip on the tires sidewall lettering!

[1badg35]

yeah i need one of the wheel turning also, or maybe a picture of the wheel turning to see if it just forces the fender outward. apparently i cant add much more caster to mine as its already pretty well out, so i am just going to have to add some more camber or figure something else out altogether

[Jozi]

I see no video of turning.

Sorry, thought you meant wheel turning, but you meant the front wheel turning

[DDM]

The link...

You can't see the front wheels turning in that link though...

[Kielan]

I see no video of turning.

The link...

[NeedingAnAudi]

See above

I see no video of turning.

[Jozi]

I'd guess his spring rates are in the high teens to twenties. pretty sure he has a video on youtube showing the wheel clearance while driving
Edit: I take that back. He says his widebody flexes. Seems like if he DID hit a large bump that fender is going to be shattered:
Rear wheel fitment, Work Meister S1 19x12.5 +5 with 285/30 Hankook Ventus V12 - YouTube

I need to see a video of the wheels turning.

See above

[NeedingAnAudi]

I need to see a video of the wheels turning.

[DDM]

Maybe this is relevant too:
McPherson struts raise the car when turning because the total length from top to bottom increases, whereas Double Wishbone doesn't.
More Caster can be added with Camberplates, or modifying the point in you car where your strut mounts (moving it backwards). This is for Mcpherson.
For Double Wishbone, more caster is added by moving the upper wishbone backwards. This will prove a lot more difficult than the Mcpherson method.
TBH, I have no idea what Z32's run up front?

[Kielan]

BMWs also have notoriously weak strut towers... Just saying.

[Jesus Christ]

What about FMU gold wheels? the rear shocks came up through the shock towers it tore the tower apart.
Also i think if i remember correctly that Sean's M3 stated that his front towers started to crack in the front. This was about 1 or 2 years ago.

And i ask again, what is this PS you are talking about? Is it power steering if so the statement is wrong.
Its the Caster that will lift the car also will it add more camber when you are turning witch will help when you are trying to get a tight fitment. Caster plays a big role in not rubbing when turning.
Older cars with out power steering will also lift but not as much because they have less caster. this is because caster makes the car heavier to turn and older cars this was not wanted. But with the addition of power steering the engineers were able to add more caster and the car would still be lighter to turn. they added caster to increase stability in a straight line when going faster.

I know how PS works, I know a hydraulic pump on my engine doesn't raise the car when I turn. my sarcasm wasn't very clear apparently so I'll try and be clearer

Zic is right. Its the caster, PS just helps make it easy haha


Also Ive cracked quite a few strut towers with much less than 17kg spring rates. Imo the street is harsher on strut towers than the track just as youre much more likely to damage a wheel on the street than the track

on e36s? So you worry about your high spring rates on your m cracking your strut towers? I certainly don't and will soon be running 15k up front with a back up 16k just in case.

I know seans were cracked but Sean drives hard as hell, but its still a valid point cause he had reinforcement plates too. Not saying it doesn't happen but in my opinion I will be struck by lightning twice before it happens to me while tooling around town and going to meets. I just think it's a overhyped bimmerforum thing, people told me they destroyed a 318 rear end with 150 whp and I've doubled that going on 1k miles so I rely on my personal experience haha.

I was completely talking out my ass

No shit


Cliffs: it doesn't hurt to reinforce. They will be ok for a while if you don't put them under shitty conditions but if left exposed for a prolonged period of time you might get some damage. Your car lifts up from locking the wheel because PS fluid fills your shocks.

I'm on 550 or 600 lbs rates on a full size GC strut that constantly bottoms out while being physically as low as possible just for reference.

[1badg35]

alright, so we have established adding caster angle will allow for more clearance. Anyone have any good tips on adjusting caster? i would like to be able to tuck quite a bit more tire up front so i can lower the car all around, but be able to clear the fender.

[deckard]

it can happen on any car, i think this thread just shows that e36 drivers go ham all day. e36 is the general lee of BMWs.