HAHAHAHA it's about time

[Han]

I understand the letter, I am talking about all of you, the people in this thread.
And how am I bitching? I am simply stating the facts.





They are not exact, the Rotas for instance are much more concave and have thicker spokes. They are very similar for sure.

And what do you do for work? Do you work in an industry where things are sold? I bet I can find a similar situation with you.

You do realize that the concave is dependent on the wheel's specs, right? They're based off of TE37's which is Mackin's design. They're still ripping them off even if they're not 100% exact.

The majority of this thread does not condone one for copying someone else just to make a quick buck. Like I said before, I understand both points of views - from the vendor/dealer standpoint as well as Mackin's standpoint.

[Rally]

Yes, I am. Did Kioto invent the halogen bulb? No so how exactly did they get their idea?

How are they different? They are made of a cheaper filiment or less gauge wire?

Well, Rotas are cast and Volks are forged. From the outside I bet you cannot tell the Sylvania and Kioto bulb apart.

My guess is that "bulb shape" has become part of public domain since it has been around and is no longer protected (if it was ever even protected to start). At which point it would be removed from consideration through the subtractive method of misappropriation. Automotive halogen bulb copy infringement would be determined based on the design and dynamics of things like the filament, etc. The things that companies like Sylvania actually have protected....whatever design/method they use to make brighter lights.

I'm pretty sure if you look deep enough and find the copyrights and patents for volk wheels you'd find that the visual design itself is protected....unlike bulb shape.

[Oxer]

Please realize that not every 25 year old makes $150,000 / year so the market demanded a product that looked similar but was much less expensive and much less quality.

Im 20 (21 in a few weeks), I make $40k a year, and can easily say that I haven't owned a single set of replica wheels. Hell last year I forked out 10% of my yearly earnings to import a set of ccw's.

Kielan is what? 17? and he also refuses to buy a set of reps for the exact same reason.. You cant preach that due to the demand of the market these companies somehow brought it upon themselves.... If the rep companies weren't around "young" people wouldnt be buying reps to begin with! They would save and buy genuine wheels.

In my opinion, your argument is invalid.

[KarlSpackler]

Wait what? Are you just saying they're copies because they're both halogen bulbs?

That's like saying BBS's are replicas of Volks because they're both round wheels. Or that Honda's are just replicas of BMW's because they're both cars.

Yes, I am. Did Kioto invent the halogen bulb? No so how exactly did they get their idea?

How are they different? They are made of a cheaper filiment or less gauge wire?

Well, Rotas are cast and Volks are forged. From the outside I bet you cannot tell the Sylvania and Kioto bulb apart.

[Oxer]

Wait what? Are you just saying they're copies because they're both halogen bulbs?

That's like saying BBS's are replicas of Volks because they're both round wheels. Or that Honda's are just replicas of BMW's because they're both cars.

Dude havent you heard? Mc Donalds is sueing Burger King for making competitively priced burgers and fries...

[Rally]

Agreed, if this is the case, why doesnt Volk sue the shit out of them? Maybe because they didnt get a patent?

Now who's fault is it?

Do you know they don't have patents? I'm pretty sure they do.

There are numerous reasons Volk wouldn't/hasn't sued them I'm sure. Many of which can be attributed to the difficulty of taking legal actions against companies located in other (smaller) countries or in countries where infringement laws are enforced much less strictly.

[KarlSpackler]

Your right, those all look like dick and I would never buy them.
What is your point? You are proving my entire theory.

Please realize that not every 25 year old makes $150,000 / year so the market demanded a product that looked similar but was much less expensive and much less quality.

Supply and demand. Volk, Work, SSR will continue to sell wheels because they are higher quality and look much better (except the Rota Grids ) but they also need to realize there is another piece of the market pie that they do not fit in.

[Kielan]

Kielan- The "troll" your referring to happens to be a very well respected member of StanceWorks and has had more quality "real" wheels then most on here.

While I disagree with his reasoning within this thread, he doesn't deserve to be called a "troll" or told to GTFO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.. Leave the name calling for the playground.

Sorry Ben and Karl. Sure, people will want to pay less for the seemingly the same thing but the whole point of this is showing that Mackin is really trying to put a hold on this. They probably can't sue because of the exact argument that you are making, about them being similar but not exact copies. However there are cases, of which wheel companies have sued and won the case.

[Rally]

Ok, went onto Mackin's website. They distribute Kioto halogen/flourecent bulbs to the USA for automobiles. Kioto has been around since 1997 as a company.

On the other hand, Sylvania sells the EXACT same god damn thing and has been doing so since the 80's. Who is copying who now? I am sure Kioto saw a niche in the market for a cheaper or different way to make the same product.

Wait what? Are you just saying they're copies because they're both halogen bulbs?

That's like saying BBS's are replicas of Volks because they're both round wheels. Or that Honda's are just replicas of BMW's because they're both cars.

[Oxer]

And since I buckled my ssr's on the legend, I ordered a pair of these....



SP1 Professors ftw!

[Oxer]

or these Mugen M7's...



God I love these wheels... I will be ballin outta control once I get my hands on these badboys.

[Oxer]

I want a set of those ssr's

[KarlSpackler]

All I have to say is that you are an idiot if you really think that the Rota's aren't copies. I have seen both side by side, and unless I was sitting there with a ruler I would never be able to see size difference.

You know you are a really good troll right. GTFO.

Never once did I say they werent copies, they are copies though they have their diffrences.

My whole point is products are driven by supply and demand. There was a demand for a less expensive product that looks similar. So Rota, VarrStoen etc made them out of a cast material that was cheaper. They were able to do so because somewhere along the line Volk didnt do a good job of patenting their product so a competitor used their ideas, engineered their own wheels and boom, you have "fakes" as you call them.

Are you trying to say there should only be 1 company producing a 6 spoke wheel? I am sure somewhere along the lines GM (example, dont know for face) designed and came up with anti lock brakes. Soon enough, EVERY vehicle has them. And Ford designed the shift on the fly 4WD, and soon enough all trucks have this option. Do you not get my point?

It happens with EVERYTHING. That is my point and if Volk cannot out market/sell their competitors they will go down the drain.

And troll, lol

I'm not sure which wheels you're using in your example, but the differences you listed are VERY VERY minor and probably hardly noticeable from the untrained eye.

The law only requires a substantial similarity to deem something an illegal copy. If there are minor differences that would be looked over by your average customer such as a slight change in spoke width, that's not considered enough difference. In the case of any of the replicas I've seen, they are all blatant copies and would be considered to be infringement.

An example being a ralph lauren shirt and a fake one. If the polo player on the horse was facing the opposite direction, you might point that out as a difference and say it's not a copy. More than likely the court would disagree because it would still be considered as having a substantial similarity and would be deemed a copy.

Agreed, if this is the case, why doesnt Volk sue the shit out of them? Maybe because they didnt get a patent?

Now who's fault is it?

[KarlSpackler]

c'mon guy, that shit is almost fucking idential. There are thousands of six spoke wheel designs but i have a hard time telling a rota apart from volks. Your gonna tell me that jmags just happen to look like mugen m7's too because its a 7 spoke wheel. There is no innocence in this.

Didnt say there was innocence but if they cannot paten the idea, then it is free game. And dont try and tell me that Volk did all of the R&D because I know for a fact Rota engineers/designs their own products. Its not like Rota took Volk's blueprints and just started to manufacture their product under a different name, they saw a niche in the market and went for it

a walrus is not an alligator, so that is not ripping them off. Its different. The laws allow for that and that's absolutely fine with me. If they tried putting a fucking alligator on their clothes, you bet your ass Lacoste would sue the shit out of them.

Right, but the Rota Grids and Varrstoen reps are also different no matter how minute it is and they have their own unique traits.

and this shows that you know nothing about the factors that determine the price of a product. Volk doesnt sit there and go, you know what, lets just charge like oh i dont know.... 3 grand for this shit right here, im sure people will buy it.

Dude, I know exactly what factors determine the price of a product and completely understand that if you are spending more on forged materials vs. cast your price will be higher. BUT OWN IT and use that to your advantage. SELL your product and your company and you dont have to worry about the little guys who will always be around.

For fuck sake, do people buy BMWs because they are the cheapest?

There is more than just one company and more than just one wheel that they are copying

Ok, went onto Mackin's website. They distribute Kioto halogen/flourecent bulbs to the USA for automobiles. Kioto has been around since 1997 as a company.

On the other hand, Sylvania sells the EXACT same god damn thing and has been doing so since the 80's. Who is copying who now? I am sure Kioto saw a niche in the market for a cheaper or different way to make the same product.

Like I said before, this happens with every product available. It is what creates competition and keeps costs down. If the higher priced product cannot sell their consumers on why they should spend more then that is THEIR OWN FAULT. I dont give a shit if it is an exact replica or not.

General Motors produces both a Chevy Cavalier and a Cadilac CTS-V. If price was everything, people would only buy the Cavalier but that isnt the case and Cadilac as a brand has been able set itself apart and flourish.

[Jedidiah]

All I have to say is that you are an idiot if you really think that the Rota's aren't copies. I have seen both side by side, and unless I was sitting there with a ruler I would never be able to see size difference.

You know you are a really good troll right. GTFO.

Kielan- The "troll" your referring to happens to be a very well respected member of StanceWorks and has had more quality "real" wheels then most on here.

While I disagree with his reasoning within this thread, he doesn't deserve to be called a "troll" or told to GTFO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.. Leave the name calling for the playground.