"It was cooler static."

[CHIF8008]

static i could 50/50 grind the crown in the road, but i wised up and raised it. honestly, half the time when driving you can be pretty much into the ground, but for daily use you sometimes need to be a little bit higher.

i would bag my car seriously for that instant inch up or down.

[DER E30]

My e-brake is reserved for hill use only if that counts for anything.

Why use brakes if the frame works just the same?

[Dremetos]

My e-brake is reserved for hill use only if that counts for anything.

[DER E30]

Wait, you use bags to purposely scrape? You got it all wrong man.

Seems legit What could be better than being able to do it on command? My next hot rod will lay frame and I'll use that capability to stop at lights

[Dremetos]

Bags are to drive lower and park impossible. If you drive aired all the way up you're just playing yourself and you don't actually like low cars.

Indeed. This kid has driven behind me static, I'm sure he'll agree removing pieces of the road wasn't enough, I needed to remove piece of my car at the same time.

[drift55]

Bags are to drive lower and park impossible. If you drive aired all the way up you're just playing yourself and you don't actually like low cars.

[Dremetos]

Wait, you use bags to purposely scrape? You got it all wrong man.

Well, I couldn't get it any lower and I was already on 4" springs, so it was bag it or remove my springs. That would've been the plan, but my huge 205/40/17's were scrubbing my tubs and I'm not ready to tub it.

[FRSBrndn]

Wait, you use bags to purposely scrape? You got it all wrong man.

[7ate9]

different wheels will have this looking on-point

[AndreNY]

the Junk yard called they want their car back.....

[525iT_Feen]

This is fucking stupid. Every aspect of it.

[avidworks]

I'll never understand why people put race harnesses and cages in street cars that will never see the track.

Harnesses should not be used in any car without a proper roll cage, and roll cages that extend into the drivers compartment should never be installed in a car you'll be driving without a helmet.

Stock seatbelts allow you to slide downward. Five point harnesses keep you in the upright position and don't allow any movement -- which means you're going to be crushed should the roof collapse. They are not safer than factory belts.

Some things aren't worth the scene points.

[DER E30]

Yes, a 3-point will perform better in a rollover than a 5-point if you do not have a cage. Part of the design of a 3-point is that it allows the body to rotate around the axis of the shoulder strap. This allows the head, neck, and shoulders to move downward in the event that the roof crushes in, which is not something that can happen with a harness. Ask any first responder and they'll tell you stories of coming up on cars crushed flat like a tin can where they were sure the driver was dead, only to find him or her folded up and perfectly fine.

The design of a 3-point belt is extremely clever and very well-suited to the kinds of conditions street cars and occupants are subjected to in a crash.


I don't tell you this stuff to be patronizing or to mock your decision to install a harness bar. If you want to run one for autocross or just for show, you'll hear no complaints from me. But they have no place whatsoever on the street or on the track.

I don't have much to add, but I wrecked a car a few years ago with stock 3 point belts. Hit a genie lift at ~25 and pretty much stopped in 3 ft including 2.5 ft of crumple zone, sliding said lift ~6 inches. I bumped my forehead on the wheel and I think that the 3 point NOT holding my shoulders firmly to the seat saved my neck... If my torso had been solidly belted to the seat my head would have continued forward with nothing but my neck to stop it. I would have been hurt much worse with a 5 point I'm certain... This stuff is serious bizness...
Vid relavent to this discussion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE

[Dutch]

Someone I knew had a stripped out car with a rear strut brace on the towers he used as a harness bar. He crashed his car to the extent where his seat detached from the car and shot him into the strut bar. He snapped his neck because of that. He died...

I'd listen to what he has to say Dremetos...

Otherwise, cars pretty spiffy. I like it! But the harness bar, be careful whichever you choose with it dude

[Oh Damn, it's Sam]

My harness is a 5 point. The stock seat belt is still there and fully functional on both passenger and drivers sides.

Good choices both.

You're telling me a factory 3-point harness is going to do better in a roll over incident? It's a roll over - regardless of your harness the weight of the vehicle is crushing down upon you. A factory 3-point without a cage will be just as effective as a 5-point w/ a harness bar and no cage.

Yes, a 3-point will perform better in a rollover than a 5-point if you do not have a cage. Part of the design of a 3-point is that it allows the body to rotate around the axis of the shoulder strap. This allows the head, neck, and shoulders to move downward in the event that the roof crushes in, which is not something that can happen with a harness. Ask any first responder and they'll tell you stories of coming up on cars crushed flat like a tin can where they were sure the driver was dead, only to find him or her folded up and perfectly fine.

The design of a 3-point belt is extremely clever and very well-suited to the kinds of conditions street cars and occupants are subjected to in a crash.

And this is all based on the idea of the harness bar failing. How can you be sure it will, or will not?

Three things:

1. Bending theory is not difficult math. Run the equations yourself for however fast you think you might hit something, and see what results you get. I can guarantee you that the deflection will not be zero. Or for a more anecdotal example, remember that the cheap shitty pipe kinker Harbor Freight sells has only a 12-ton jack, and it'll turn .120 wall into pretzels all day long. A human body can easily produce 12 tons of force in a hard crash.

2. Let's say the harness bar is perfectly fine. Great, you're just as well off as if you ran the stock seat belts, and no better. Now let's say the harness bar fails. In the photo I posted above, the passenger was ejected from the vehicle and the driver hit the dashboard at the full force of the crash. And remember, the harness bar failing is not the only way to get injured on a street car using harnesses. If you have a violent rollover, you better pray that bar tacos the way I say it will.

3. It doesn't take all that many years in the pit crew for teams at the track or at rallies to have seen just about every kind of safety item failure you can imagine. When they all work in concert, the results are amazing. I've seen 100 MPH rollovers where the car rolls 6, 7 times and the driver walks away with a concussion and a bloody lip. And when their shit fails, or they cheap out, or the gods are just vengeful that day, I've seen people die.

I don't tell you this stuff to be patronizing or to mock your decision to install a harness bar. If you want to run one for autocross or just for show, you'll hear no complaints from me. But they have no place whatsoever on the street or on the track.