The hydro thread

[Byron]

I've been looking more and more into hydros recently, and I feel there isn't enough info about them in our scene. I want this thread to be about the truths, lies, upsides and downsides of hydraulic suspension.

Lets discuss:

Cylinders

Who makes the best cylinders? What do you look for when trying to choose the right cylinders? How do you mount them? How much travel do they have?

Pumps

Who makes the best pumps? How many do you really need? What is the duty cycle on them? How much cooling do they need?

Manifolds

Who makes the best manifolds? How many dumps are needed? How do they work? How do you control them? How do you hook them up to the rest of the system?

Accumulators

Who makes the best accumulators? Are they necessary? How many do you need? Can you adjust them? Where do you plumb them into the system?

Plumbing

How do you connect everything together? Hardlines vs softlines? What size lines do you need? How do you plumb the whole system? What material is best? Do the lines need to be equal lengths?

Management

How do you control the setup? Do airbag management kits work? Who makes the best management?

Batteries

How many do you need? How does the amount/charge of batteries change the operation of the system? What batteries are best? How long do they last between charges? Can you get a larger or multiple alternators to keep them charged?

Ride

How do hydros ride? What difference do accumulators make? Can you run more than one accumulator? Can you adjust how stiff they are? Does the ride change depending on height? Do different length cylinders ride different? What are the benefits of keeping the springs?

Miscellaneous

What other things will be needed? Is an oil filter necessary? What are pump blocks? Do you need a pressure gauge? Do you need a tank for the oil?





If you don't know the answers to these, please don't speculate. There is enough misinformation floating around the internet, don't make it worse.

[Byron]

My personal questions:
I want my car to ride great while being low. I dislike how bags get softer the lower you get, but I like how you can raise them up for bad roads. If I had a great riding hydraulic setup with 2" of ground clearance, is it possible to keep that same ride when I'm .5" off the ground? What about when I raise it to 4"? If I increase the pressure in the accumulators (is this even possible?), will the ride be stiffer or just harsher?

And what is this I read about keeping the springs? Do the springs hold the car up like normal and the cylinders just compress them when you want it to go low?

[Minty_Fresh]

id love to see some replies to this. air is cool but it like you said the ride is lacking, and they take up a lot of spacer in the front wheel wells that you rub your wheels on them. feel like hydros you could possibly ride way lower with a lot stiffer of a ride.

[herrakani]

Hydro's with accumulators are the best to drive, test drive a Citroen if U want to try stock with hydros.

[OCKlasse]

My personal questions:
I want my car to ride great while being low. I dislike how bags get softer the lower you get, but I like how you can raise them up for bad roads. If I had a great riding hydraulic setup with 2" of ground clearance, is it possible to keep that same ride when I'm .5" off the ground? What about when I raise it to 4"? If I increase the pressure in the accumulators (is this even possible?), will the ride be stiffer or just harsher?

And what is this I read about keeping the springs? Do the springs hold the car up like normal and the cylinders just compress them when you want it to go low?

Hey, Byron. Let me try to answer some questions for you:

Hydraulics ride very nice at their medium height (the shaft extended half way). In either direction, lower or higher, the car will begin to stiffen (not as much when you raise it as when you lower it). You can drive a juiced car pretty low.

In regards to accumulators, you can restrict the amount of fluid entering the accumulator via "slowdown" valves, and thus, you can stiffen or soften the ride of the car. An accumulator with more pressure typically will cause the car to ride firmer. If you want to be able to adjust accumulator pressure, buy some with a built-in Schrader valve.

Keep in mind that no car will ride the same .5" off the ground and 4" off the ground. The beauty with hydraulics though is that you can tailor to ride to your liking, at your "typical" driving height.

You can keep your springs, if you feel it will not impede its ability to go as low as you wish. They are not necessary, but the car will be firmer (less dive and squat), and cornering will be improved.

My personal favorite hydraulic setup is a one pump, eight dump. It requires a lot of fittings (eight dumps, five check valves, four slowdowns, lots of tees, etc.), but it will have complete individual corner control with no fluid transfer, and can be easily utilized with an Accuair E-Level management system if you so wished.

I can answer any other questions people may have...

[Byron]

Interesting about how they get stiffer away from the middle. When you say stiffer, is it a firmer stiffer or uncomfortable stiffer? How much stiffer do they get?

An 8 dump system like you mentioned pretty much means each corner is completely adjustable independent of the other 3 right? How would you plumb that? Would it be 1 check valve right off the pump, then 1 for each corner?


And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around using the springs. Do the cylinders compress them when you lower it, or is the weight of the car supposed to do it by itself?

[OCKlasse]

Interesting about how they get stiffer away from the middle. When you say stiffer, is it a firmer stiffer or uncomfortable stiffer? How much stiffer do they get?

An 8 dump system like you mentioned pretty much means each corner is completely adjustable independent of the other 3 right? How would you plumb that? Would it be 1 check valve right off the pump, then 1 for each corner?


And I'm still trying to wrap my mind around using the springs. Do the cylinders compress them when you lower it, or is the weight of the car supposed to do it by itself?

It actually rides nice very low. Not too stiff.

Here's a few pics to help you understand the 1-8:





In regards to the springs, honestly don't run them. Just run accumulators.

[benz88]

Sorry I just noticed your PM Byron, Seems like OCKlasse seems to have replied. I'll chime in abit though.

Cylinders, Any that are Twin and triple ring sealed will be great. Black Magic Hydraulics make some of if not the best Cylinders you can buy for Cars. Ride height. Depends on the size you order. you can order from 6's all the way to 22's, Which represent the amount of travel they give,


Pumps I Personally love BlackMagic's. I've had zero problems. And If you need help they are quick to respond or call you, Even out of country. You can get away with 1 pump also

DumpsDumps, I forget which brand mine are but you only really need 2, usually its one per corner for individual control, But its not really necessary or needed. I run 1 for the front then with a Y block so the front lifts and dumps as one.

Accumulators Not needed, You can run Shocks instead. You run these between the checks and the Cylinders

Plumbing Mine are all soft line, Size depends on pressure wanted. You don't need that much.

Management I run Mine off momentary toggle switches, Which are the preferred thing use. Use a good quality switch with a minimum of 10amps


Batteries You could get away with 1, It will be slow to raise, 2 wired to 24 volts would be quick enough for a non lowrider and work great. Make sure they are a deep cycle marine battery. With high CCA's.

RideMine rides great at any height. I coils on my Cyls though, No shocks or Accums. I suggest a stiffer coil than factory to accommodate for the weight added. I can ride laid out and it rides almost the same as half way up. Fully locked up is stiff as hell though





That said. I highly suggest you pick up and read this book. It's great to read and have around. Answers ALOT of questions
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Science-Hydraulic-Suspension-Richard-Coote/dp/1414007469"]The Science of Hydraulic Suspension: Richard Coote: 9781414007465: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

[luciferi]

Brandon, is that the 1-8 from the genesis?

[Fred802]

I figured I'd post this here.

I own a 1995 Mercedes-Benz S600 sedan with OEM hydraulic self-leveling suspension. How can I control the ride height? The only switch on the interior that has to do with the suspension is "sport mode" which just makes it stiffer. I'd like more control than that.

This guy-

http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15262

was able to control the rear ride height with the OEM hydraulics, so I'm hoping there's a way I can control all four corners.

Any help would be appreciated

[XsuperbeeX]

PM me too if you guys have any question running hydraulics too.. Thanks to OCKlasse.. All I can say that they are superior than bags period

[creaney]

My golf runs a hydro system. Pretty sure its the first GTI MkV ever done

The hydro system I have runs off the one battery already in the car! It handles really good. obviously not as good as a track originated coilover but it is much much better than any air-ride set ups ive ever been in and also is lower in the majority of cars.

The higher you have the more bouncy it becomes so the lower the better... if you don’t like the ride simply change the spring.. And it’s simple to do so because the springs are exposed in the boot.

heres a quick video of my hydros on my winter setup (excuse the shitty irish weather and bad quality)

http://flic.kr/p/dPs4qr

and some pics of mine and a buddys mini running the same system


racekor by Creaney, on Flickr


Mini hydros bbs rs by Creaney, on Flickr


mkv by Creaney, on Flickr

[cbus mkv]

those wheels!

[creaney]

straight swop for your rs's?? lol

[Byron]

My golf runs a hydro system. Pretty sure its the first GTI MkV ever done

The hydro system I have runs off the one battery already in the car! It handles really good. obviously not as good as a track originated coilover but it is much much better than any air-ride set ups ive ever been in and also is lower in the majority of cars.

The higher you have the more bouncy it becomes so the lower the better... if you don’t like the ride simply change the spring.. And it’s simple to do so because the springs are exposed in the boot.

heres a quick video of my hydros on my winter setup (excuse the shitty irish weather and bad quality)

http://flic.kr/p/dPs4qr

and some pics of mine and a buddys mini running the same system

How long have you had it running on the stock battery? I know how shitty VW batteries are so that's pretty cool that you made it work. How is the alternator holding up? And do you have pictures of how you are running the springs?